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MassWrestling.com :: Forums :: Rankings and Predictions

2017 D1 States Predictions  Go to page  1 2 [3] 4 5
Kyle Hargreaves
Wed Feb 15 2017, 11:37AM
Registered Member #8551
Joined: Thu Jan 22 2009, 07:41AM
Posts: 4
I agree with much of what Steve Sentes is saying, however, while the best wrestler will win statement is generally true, it prevents the two best wrestlers from meeting in the finals where they deserve to be. This can have implications at both All States and New Englands.

Now in terms of people commenting on "good coaching" and strength of schedules, I could not disagree more. Speaking about the Brockton coaching staff specifically, they developed and wrestled a schedule that was best for their TEAM, not an individual. They have worked tirelessly, both in their off-season club Smashmouth as well as during the season, to build-up what was once a struggling program. Their commitment and dedication to building a team and strengthening a program resulted in a D1 South Sectional Title only a year ago. "Good coaches" place the priority on a team, not an individual. They wrestled a tough schedule that afforded their better wrestlers the opportunity to face tough competition, but also allowed their less experienced wrestlers the opportunity to experience some success and not simply be walking pins every time they stepped foot on the mat. Teams that enter into tournaments like Lowell so one wrestler can place or win, while the remaining 13 wrestlers in the line-up go 0-2 and don't place, does not benefit the team or the development of their wrestlers whatsoever. These coaches are building a program, not punishing and hindering the development of lesser experienced wrestlers for the sake of one or two individuals. I think both Wyman and Derosa are excellent wrestlers and can be excellent representatives for MA wrestling. It is a shame they can't showcase their talents in the finals and on the appropriate stage. I wish both young men all the best, as well as all other wrestlers competing.
Patsfan11
Wed Feb 15 2017, 12:20PM
Registered Member #14829
Joined: Sun Feb 07 2016, 08:05PM
Posts: 52
They need to get states at 1 location. To many big matches
Barry Wilson
Wed Feb 15 2017, 12:26PM
Registered Member #2948
Joined: Mon Jan 02 2006, 03:01PM
Posts: 30
Patsfan11 wrote ...

They need to get states at 1 location. To many big matches


I completely agree. The individual state tournament(s) could use an overhaul to modernize and to replicate the success that other states have. MANY other states, with great success may I add, skip the "16-man AllState" tournament approach and host their 2, 3, or 4 divisional state tournaments ALL at the same time at the same place, on a BIG stage. Get the divisional tournaments into an arena, in front of 10,000+ spectators (add up the attendance from D I, II, & III state tournaments last year and it should be in the 10k+ range) and take them out of cramped, uncomfortable, dark HS gyms with no seatbacks. The amenities are better for fans (bathrooms and concessions) and what athlete wouldn't love to get to be a part of that kind of competitive atmosphere? Also, MA needs to stop doing the Sectional and State Finals where they have all 1st, 3rd, and 5th matches running simultaneously. Save the 1st place bout for last and don't do awards presentations until after the whole round of finals matches is over.
Catfish
Wed Feb 15 2017, 12:32PM
Registered Member #11436
Joined: Mon Nov 14 2011, 07:52AM
Posts: 107
Wyman is #1 in weight class on latest All State MA rankings. The Rankings Team has clarified a few times this year that the rankings can be viewed as seeding. I think a reasonable person can argue 1 and 2 with Derosa - but 4 for an undefeated wrestler with serious paper. This appears to be a case where the folks seeding did not follow the criteria.

Wrestling is a tough sport - and seeding is earned.
Northshore
Wed Feb 15 2017, 12:41PM
Registered Member #15146
Joined: Thu Dec 29 2016, 07:11AM
Posts: 19
Catfish wrote ...

Wyman is #1 in weight class on latest All State MA rankings. The Rankings Team has clarified a few times this year that the rankings can be viewed as seeding. I think a reasonable person can argue 1 and 2 with Derosa - but 4 for an undefeated wrestler with serious paper. This appears to be a case where the folks seeding did not follow the criteria.

Wrestling is a tough sport - and seeding is earned.


Wyman also beat Camacho(ranked #15 in the country on Intermat) last year...yet he's a 4 seed. No thought went into this at all. It's worse than the old college football rankings.
canttouchthis
Wed Feb 15 2017, 12:56PM
Registered Member #6659
Joined: Sun Dec 23 2007, 10:15PM
Posts: 71
MHov wrote ...

DeRosa has been on a mission all year, has not had a close match, prediction he pins Wyman


Highly doubt either one gets pinned they are both outstanding wrestlers. They are two men amongst boys out there each one at a college level of talent. Wyman is just so technically sound and quick I don't see him losing this match. They are two buzz saws on path for each other unfortunately the seedings took away a great finals match and not to knock on who ever wrestles Derosa or Wyman in the finals but the championship will be won in the semis. I don't expect this to be their last matchup of the year as I think we will get two more after this weekend. I expect this match will be the best of the tournament and Wyman wins this match in thriller. It willl hopefully give the MIAA some reason to change the seeding procedures. Because to be honest to have two returning all state champs square off in the semis is ridiculous and it's going to affect one returning champ for the remainder of the season.
TheNinho
Wed Feb 15 2017, 01:13PM
Registered Member #14770
Joined: Mon Jan 25 2016, 12:09PM
Posts: 27
Kyle Hargreaves wrote ...


Now in terms of people commenting on "good coaching"


Please don't twist my words around to imply that I was putting down the Brockton coaching staff... I said that the criteria is available for all to see and that it should be considered when putting together a schedule, amongst the many other things you mention.

Nevertheless, to argue that the seeding was done wrong is incorrect. Whether you like the system in place or not, and personally I do not, it is what we have been given and it was followed correctly.
Northshore
Wed Feb 15 2017, 01:30PM
Registered Member #15146
Joined: Thu Dec 29 2016, 07:11AM
Posts: 19
Way off topic regarding D1 predictions..sorry to keep this going.
TheNinho - you believe this weight class was seeded correctly? If the answer is no then the seeding was incorrect. Does the process put in place the option to have an argument made against the scoring system?
TheNinho
Wed Feb 15 2017, 01:43PM
Registered Member #14770
Joined: Mon Jan 25 2016, 12:09PM
Posts: 27
YES, the seeding was done correctly,... Whether the current system is the best way to evaluate our wrestlers is an entirely separate topic, but it needs to be followed as long as it is in place. And it was, correctly.

For a parallel example, a president can win the "popular vote" and lose the election... widespread opinion that Wyman should be seeded ahead of the other two does not supersede the agreed upon point system that we have in place

Obviously there are those who do not like the outcome of the current criteria in all cases, myself included. But your opinion and mine have no impact on what the correct seeding is for this year.

Perhaps this will spark conversation to change it, but based on the established process, the seeding is correct and arguing otherwise is fruitless.
AHS611
Wed Feb 15 2017, 01:51PM
Registered Member #7279
Joined: Sun Feb 10 2008, 06:15PM
Posts: 330
Northshore wrote ...

Way off topic regarding D1 predictions..sorry to keep this going.
TheNinho - you believe this weight class was seeded correctly? If the answer is no then the seeding was incorrect. Does the process put in place the option to have an argument made against the scoring system?


It does. Any coach can appeal to their sectional/divisional rep a seed if they believe there is an extenuating circumstance. A lot of factors and consideration goes into Criteria 2 - I would encourage people to understand how it works before labeling it broken. Also, whoever loses that semi final match, should they come back to get 3rd would still be on the opposite side of the All-State bracket from the champion, so whoever said this will affect them the rest of the way, that's unlikely if they are the two best.
Hurricane
Wed Feb 15 2017, 02:01PM
Registered Member #10057
Joined: Thu Feb 18 2010, 10:41AM
Posts: 59
I think that the best possible matchup in this weight would be Wyman and Richard. Unfortunately I personally don't see that happening as I think DeRosa is in a class of his own in this weight. But most of the people on this thread seem to forget that Richard has really good paper as well. Him and Wyman were both Rd of 12 at NHSCAs on top of what they have done in New England.
Prediction for D1
1. DeRosa 2. Richard 3. Wyman 4. Garcia
Prediction for All-States
We get the Wyman/Richard matchup in the semis as well as DeRosa/Garcia
1. DeRosa 2. Richard 3. Wyman 4. Garcia
I think that if we do see that match at all states then it will probably be the best match of the year in MA both have unrelenting pace and great gas tanks (especially Wyman).



Northshore
Wed Feb 15 2017, 02:05PM
Registered Member #15146
Joined: Thu Dec 29 2016, 07:11AM
Posts: 19
So it basically sounds like the coach didn't appeal (system works)...or did an lost. The Ninho - pretty poor comparison. Anyway as long as it's not strictly based on some point scheme and there is some intelligence behind the process, it makes sense.
canttouchthis
Wed Feb 15 2017, 03:02PM
Registered Member #6659
Joined: Sun Dec 23 2007, 10:15PM
Posts: 71
Brockton coaches are not the issue here and are far from it. They are some of the most talented and knowledgeable coaches in the state.
Patsfan11
Wed Feb 15 2017, 03:07PM
Registered Member #14829
Joined: Sun Feb 07 2016, 08:05PM
Posts: 52
imagine if 1 of them lost in quarters.All the hype for nothing
Catfish
Wed Feb 15 2017, 03:41PM
Registered Member #11436
Joined: Mon Nov 14 2011, 07:52AM
Posts: 107
In Wyman vs Derosa you have the #1 and #2 ranked wrestling and the #3 and #4 in pound for pound per the MA Wrestling Rankings. I think you can flip a coin for who should be 1 versus 2 - but 4 is wrong.

Of course they both could be beat - this is why it is settled on the mat.

That said - on paper - this is the premier match of the entire tournament. It belongs in the finals - under the lights - with the introductions - with all eyes on this showdown.

This should be corrected - they both have earned the honor.
Patsfan11
Wed Feb 15 2017, 04:55PM
Registered Member #14829
Joined: Sun Feb 07 2016, 08:05PM
Posts: 52
Catfish you are correct. It was like last weekend Haverty vs Su. The whole gym was watching and 3 other matches going on. To many good matches this weekend. Stinks they are at 3 different locations
nb135
Wed Feb 15 2017, 06:26PM
Registered Member #6515
Joined: Sun Dec 09 2007, 09:42AM
Posts: 1213
Catfish wrote ...

In Wyman vs Derosa you have the #1 and #2 ranked wrestling and the #3 and #4 in pound for pound per the MA Wrestling Rankings. I think you can flip a coin for who should be 1 versus 2 - but 4 is wrong.

Of course they both could be beat - this is why it is settled on the mat.

That said - on paper - this is the premier match of the entire tournament. It belongs in the finals - under the lights - with the introductions - with all eyes on this showdown.

This should be corrected - they both have earned the honor.

that will most likely be the all state final match
Jayman15
Wed Feb 15 2017, 06:42PM
Registered Member #14667
Joined: Tue Dec 22 2015, 08:38AM
Posts: 10
Can we stop talking about 120 and get some predictions on other weight classes?
wrestling888
Wed Feb 15 2017, 06:56PM
Registered Member #10328
Joined: Wed Apr 21 2010, 05:20PM
Posts: 34
Why don't you put predictions up if it's bothering you the 120 weight class is getting all of the attention
MHov
Wed Feb 15 2017, 07:40PM
Registered Member #14672
Joined: Thu Dec 24 2015, 10:02AM
Posts: 14
Lol wrestling, true
MHov
Wed Feb 15 2017, 07:45PM
Registered Member #14672
Joined: Thu Dec 24 2015, 10:02AM
Posts: 14
Chris D is my nephew, been to alot of tourneys this yr & meets. Ferri, DeRosa, Montiero, Whitley are the best wrestlers i've seen, Whitley's a BEAST @ 220 to bad hes's playing football at Holy Cross
Aztec2016
Thu Feb 16 2017, 05:07PM
Registered Member #14751
Joined: Sun Jan 17 2016, 04:19PM
Posts: 83
WishIWrestled wrote ...

MHov wrote ...

DeRosa beat Richard easily in the Holidays, Richard wanted nothing to do with him & DeRosa has beaten Garcia numerous times easily, looking forward to DeRosa/Wyman semis


May I make a suggestion? I think we should avoid accusing wrestlers of things like "wanting nothing to do with" another wrestler. Andy Richard is an outstanding wrestler. Instead of insulting Richard's performance, maybe we can focus on congratulating DeRosa on the accomplishment of beating such a talented opponent.



Well said
Aztec2016
Thu Feb 16 2017, 05:34PM
Registered Member #14751
Joined: Sun Jan 17 2016, 04:19PM
Posts: 83
D1

Predictions:

106- Randall over Sevastos
113- Ferri over Garlitz
120- Wyman over Richard
126- Miller over Liss
132- Alexander over Alvan
138- Ogata over Goodall
145- Hoey over Kurker
152- Monterio over Willis
160- Goble over Sharif
170- Vecchione over Abdallah
182- Franklin over Goto
195- Marshall over Brhaeghel
220- Whittley over Gioioso
285- C St Phad over Colon



Happyman44
Thu Feb 16 2017, 08:43PM
Registered Member #15175
Joined: Wed Jan 11 2017, 08:06PM
Posts: 5
Aztec2016 wrote ...

D1

Predictions:

106- Randall over Sevastos
113- Ferri over Garlitz
120- Wyman over Richard
126- Miller over Liss
132- Alexander over Alvan
138- Ogata over Goodall
145- Hoey over Kurker
152- Monterio over Willis
160- Goble over Sharif
170- Vecchione over Abdallah
182- Franklin over Goto
195- Marshall over Brhaeghel
220- Whittley over Gioioso
285- C St Phad over Colon






Great predictions except the 132lb
Alexander will not make the finals
Jmann33
Thu Feb 16 2017, 09:12PM
Registered Member #15220
Joined: Tue Jan 31 2017, 11:04PM
Posts: 4
D1

Predictions:

106- Randall over Sevastos
113- Ferri over Garlitz
120- Derosa over Richard
126- Liss over Miller
132- Alvan over Alexander
138- Goodall over Ogata
145- Hoey over Kurker
152- Monterio over Willis
160- Sharif over Gobel
170- Vecchione over Abdallah
182- Franklin over Goto
195- Marshall over Brhaeghel
220- Whittley over Gioioso
285- C St Phad over Colon
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