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MassWrestling.com :: Forums :: Results

Div 2 North and Metro Sectionals  Go to page  1 [2]
onetwo_onetwo
Thu Mar 05 2015, 06:57AM
Registered Member #14185
Joined: Tue Dec 09 2014, 06:08AM
Posts: 39
tourneygeek wrote ...

onetwo_onetwo wrote ...

tourneygeek wrote ...

OACoach wrote ...

Pretty sure when the number of team is announced at the beginning of all-states that counts participating school not programs so co-ops are counted as multiple schools(makes Bill Wassel look better)

No. The large number of schools that were announced included alternates. The co-ops are not double counted. He gets the numbers from me.

Either way, the moral of the story is that Massachusetts does not have the number of teams to warrant three divisions.


I don't follow there are more than 150 wrestling schools. What is enough for 3 divisions???

If you look at the divisional states they each had roughly 50 teams in each division.



Pennsylvania : 2 divisions; (AA 233 schools) (AAA 260 schools) unconfirmed if each school has a program
Maryland : 2 Divisions (4A/3A 99 schools) (1A/2A 87 schools)
New Jersey: 1 Division (279 Schools)
Ohio: 3 Divisions (DI: 167 schools) (DII: 168 Schools) (DIII: 168 Schools) unconfirmed if each school has a program

In my opinion Ideally 100 Programs would be good for each division. Logistically 18-20 teams per section (72-80 teams per division) would give a strong chance of full 16 man brackets at Sectionals in each weight. Top 8 in each division would wrestle at All-States with 1v8, 2v7, 3v6, 4v5... format.
CoachB
Thu Mar 05 2015, 07:26AM
Registered Member #303
Joined: Fri Apr 09 2004, 08:24PM
Posts: 478
There's a similar topic on TheMat.com forum right now. People are listing numbers of schools for each state classification in various states. It doesn't seem that 60 ish schools per division is out of the ordinary.
onetwo_onetwo
Thu Mar 05 2015, 08:04AM
Registered Member #14185
Joined: Tue Dec 09 2014, 06:08AM
Posts: 39
CoachB wrote ...

There's a similar topic on TheMat.com forum right now. People are listing numbers of schools for each state classification in various states. It doesn't seem that 60 ish schools per division is out of the ordinary.


Thanks CoachB. Saved me a lot of research time. Agreed 60-75 seems to be the norm. Massachusetts sits at ~50. Very hard to research... but how many MA programs have >20 wrestlers? If I thought it was possible I would push to add 45 teams with full line-ups.

My goal would be 16-man brackets at sectionals, a venue that can hold all divisional states at one time, and a MIAA sanctioned State Dual Meet Tournament.
Jim Maher
Thu Mar 05 2015, 08:44AM

Joined: Mon Mar 29 2004, 08:09PM
Posts: 4670
We can type our wishes here alllll day, but until you submit a proposal to the MIAA, it's only a pipe dream.
NEU_wrestling
Thu Mar 05 2015, 09:24AM
Registered Member #12671
Joined: Sun Nov 04 2012, 07:12PM
Posts: 99

[/quote1425558337]

Pennsylvania : 2 divisions; (AA 233 schools) (AAA 260 schools) unconfirmed if each school has a program
Maryland : 2 Divisions (4A/3A 99 schools) (1A/2A 87 schools)
New Jersey: 1 Division (279 Schools)
Ohio: 3 Divisions (DI: 167 schools) (DII: 168 Schools) (DIII: 168 Schools) unconfirmed if each school has a program

In my opinion Ideally 100 Programs would be good for each division. Logistically 18-20 teams per section (72-80 teams per division) would give a strong chance of full 16 man brackets at Sectionals in each weight. Top 8 in each division would wrestle at All-States with 1v8, 2v7, 3v6, 4v5... format.

[/quote1425568877]

You cant compare the top states on how they do it. It would work, but wrestling out there is what they look forward too. PA holds states in Hershey, Jersey does it in Atlantic City. I would love to see Mass at that level, but until everyone supports this sport, its unlikely it will happen. Look at the finals, empty seats everywhere, which is bad for the sport itself. IF last year, Tsongus was sold out with 10K people watching the finals we would be on there level, but were not close yet.
finny3
Thu Mar 05 2015, 09:53AM
Registered Member #10243
Joined: Thu Mar 11 2010, 07:31AM
Posts: 20
Out of curiosity, how many programs are there in New England? Would people equate placing at New Englands to placing in New Jersey or Ohio States?
onetwo_onetwo
Thu Mar 05 2015, 10:11AM
Registered Member #14185
Joined: Tue Dec 09 2014, 06:08AM
Posts: 39
QHS wrote ...


[/quote1425558337]

Pennsylvania : 2 divisions; (AA 233 schools) (AAA 260 schools) unconfirmed if each school has a program
Maryland : 2 Divisions (4A/3A 99 schools) (1A/2A 87 schools)
New Jersey: 1 Division (279 Schools)
Ohio: 3 Divisions (DI: 167 schools) (DII: 168 Schools) (DIII: 168 Schools) unconfirmed if each school has a program

In my opinion Ideally 100 Programs would be good for each division. Logistically 18-20 teams per section (72-80 teams per division) would give a strong chance of full 16 man brackets at Sectionals in each weight. Top 8 in each division would wrestle at All-States with 1v8, 2v7, 3v6, 4v5... format.

[/quote1425568877]

You cant compare the top states on how they do it. It would work, but wrestling out there is what they look forward too. PA holds states in Hershey, Jersey does it in Atlantic City. I would love to see Mass at that level, but until everyone supports this sport, its unlikely it will happen. Look at the finals, empty seats everywhere, which is bad for the sport itself. IF last year, Tsongus was sold out with 10K people watching the finals we would be on there level, but were not close yet.


If we want MA to be a top state we have to compare ourselves to the top states. Empty seats at states is a big problem. There are numerous ways to solve this.

1. Increase number of schools participating (long process)
2. Parity (more schools represented in the finals means more sets of fans)
3. Make it is so every wrestler makes it to day 2 of states/all-states (increases number of fans on day 2.. more likely to stay for finals)
4. Combine venues (turns the a tournament into an "EVENT")
5. Centralized location (less people leaving to get home at decent time)
6. Increase youth participation (Youth sports is a family and community event... this is where fans are born)

Nothing get done without action and actions need goals.
NEU_wrestling
Thu Mar 05 2015, 10:20AM
Registered Member #12671
Joined: Sun Nov 04 2012, 07:12PM
Posts: 99
finny3 wrote ...

Out of curiosity, how many programs are there in New England? Would people equate placing at New Englands to placing in New Jersey or Ohio States?


In some weights yes but 2 years ago Team New England went doen to NJ for an All Star dual with NY and MI. NE went 1-2 losing to NY and NJ. I recall only a few state champs from the NJ and NY teams. If u win NE's you have a shot at placing in the other states.
FMS
Thu Mar 05 2015, 11:33AM
Registered Member #156
Joined: Sat Mar 27 2004, 08:20AM
Posts: 535
Section V champs out of NY would beat NE Champs...
RJW
Thu Mar 05 2015, 11:47AM
Registered Member #11515
Joined: Sun Jan 22 2012, 10:52AM
Posts: 57
FMS wrote ...

Section V champs out of NY would beat NE Champs...


Just like that? Every match? Every weight class? Just because...?
montytech160
Thu Mar 05 2015, 01:27PM
Registered Member #13806
Joined: Thu Jan 23 2014, 08:44AM
Posts: 335
RJW wrote ...

FMS wrote ...

Section V champs out of NY would beat NE Champs...


Just like that? Every match? Every weight class? Just because...?

Yeah exactly. That makes no sense when you take into account who some NE champs are. Ian Butterbrodt Super 32 runner up. Jonathan Viruet NHSCA champ. Eric Reyes. NHSCA All-American. Leonardo Trinidade 2x NHSCA all-american and 1 time as a finalist. Even Fritz. Took 4th at New England's last year (in a loaded weight class no doubt and I believe he captures the coveted title this year) but was Journeymen Champ, 6th at NHSCA's, 7th at Super 32s and 9-1 at Disney Duals.
FredB
Thu Mar 05 2015, 02:14PM
Registered Member #14436
Joined: Mon Mar 02 2015, 09:54AM
Posts: 1
Totally agree. Beyond these national HS tournaments, college wrestling provides some data as well. Many examples in NE college wrestling where freshmen, so still close to HS, who were NY state placers lost to NE HS wrestlers who hadn't even placed in HS NEs. NY wrestling is deeper than NE for sure but top end wrestlers, i.e. NE placers, much closer to top end NY state placers.
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