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Div 2 North and Metro Sectionals  Go to page  [1] 2
Jim Maher
Tue Mar 03 2015, 07:30AM

Joined: Mon Mar 29 2004, 08:09PM
Posts: 4726
We know they combined the site, how did it work out? Any confusion with the bracketing or timing of the event?

I think the MIAA should look into combining sites to cut down on expenses.
onetwo_onetwo
Tue Mar 03 2015, 08:07AM
Registered Member #14185
Joined: Tue Dec 09 2014, 06:08AM
Posts: 39
MA should return to two divisions and have Both Divisional states at the same arena. Other states do this.. It cuts down on cost and fills the venue with more fans.

Finals at D1 states barely filled Methuen's fieldhouse and there is not a lot of seating to begin with
Jim Maher
Tue Mar 03 2015, 08:47AM

Joined: Mon Mar 29 2004, 08:09PM
Posts: 4726
onetwo_onetwo wrote ...

MA should return to two divisions and have Both Divisional states at the same arena. Other states do this.. It cuts down on cost and fills the venue with more fans.

Finals at D1 states barely filled Methuen's fieldhouse and there is not a lot of seating to begin with


Not going to happen, so MIAA needs to be creative with expenses. A few years back, there was a push for a 4th Division.
onetwo_onetwo
Tue Mar 03 2015, 09:00AM
Registered Member #14185
Joined: Tue Dec 09 2014, 06:08AM
Posts: 39
Massachusetts: Population 6.7 Million; Wrestling Programs D1 52, D2 49, D3 49; Total 150
Maryland: Population 5.9 Million; Wrestling Schools Upper Division 99; Lower Division 87; Total 186

I would say top end talent from Mass and Maryland are similar. But why is Mass split into 3 Divisions that allows for the opportunity for 5 wrestler bracket at a Sectional Tournament (220lb D3C 2014)

What was the argument for making a 3rd division.. What is the argument for a 4th division?
LibertyMikeC
Tue Mar 03 2015, 09:22AM
Registered Member #8105
Joined: Sat Nov 22 2008, 02:46PM
Posts: 290
onetwo_onetwo wrote ...

Massachusetts: Population 6.7 Million; Wrestling Programs D1 52, D2 49, D3 49; Total 150



They announced at the beginning of the All-States tournament last Friday that there are 165 HS wrestling programs in MA...
Patsfan
Tue Mar 03 2015, 09:59AM
Registered Member #4545
Joined: Sun Nov 26 2006, 06:45PM
Posts: 592
Jim Maher wrote ...

We know they combined the site, how did it work out? Any confusion with the bracketing or timing of the event?

I think the MIAA should look into combining sites to cut down on expenses.


I think it went very well. In fact the atmosphere in the gym during the "blood" rounds was more intense than I remember at previous sectional tournaments. KAP seemed to eliminate the confusion and from my point of view, it made for a more entertaining event. I agree with you.

Jeff
onetwo_onetwo
Tue Mar 03 2015, 10:03AM
Registered Member #14185
Joined: Tue Dec 09 2014, 06:08AM
Posts: 39
I double checked the Sectional Results. I am assuming that if a team is not represented at Sectionals then they do not have a program. The only exception I know of is Hudson.

D1C: 14
D2C: 12
D3C: 13
D1N: 12
D2N + D2M: 24
D3N: 14
D1W: 13
D2S: 13
D3W: 19
D1S: 13
D3S: 13
nawrestler
Tue Mar 03 2015, 10:18AM
Registered Member #4570
Joined: Thu Nov 30 2006, 06:08PM
Posts: 80
All this talk about restructuring the individual format to make more money by getting more spectators is a waste of time. Consider this...who comes to watch the individual tournaments? Parents and family of the wrestlers, coaches and wrestlers that have been knocked out of tournament. Almost no "fans." Recently my high school hired a bus to take students to a girls basketball playoff game at Massasoit. Student fans at an event? You would never see that happen at a sectional tournament. And if you have ever been to a regular season girls basketball game you know that they are short on fans as well. But they filled a bus with students the other day and are planning to do it again today for the sectional semi-final.

Now make the dual meet tournament mean something and you might have a version of wrestling that could produce "fans." Nobody wants to sit around for 12 hours in a gym to wait for the finals. Now a 2 hour dual meet for the state title...I'd pay to see that.
cradleman1952
Tue Mar 03 2015, 10:22AM
Registered Member #278
Joined: Mon Jan 16 2006, 10:06AM
Posts: 1152
onetwo_onetwo wrote ...

I double checked the Sectional Results. I am assuming that if a team is not represented at Sectionals then they do not have a program. The only exception I know of is Hudson.

D1C: 14
D2C: 12
D3C: 13
D1N: 12
D2N + D2M: 24
D3N: 14
D1W: 13
D2S: 13
D3W: 19
D1S: 13
D3S: 13

D3 west has 20. Pioneer
Jim Maher
Tue Mar 03 2015, 10:27AM

Joined: Mon Mar 29 2004, 08:09PM
Posts: 4726
I wonder if Kapwrestling could do 3 sectionals at one time on 8 mats?

I was amased by the size of the Danvers Field House this past weekend.
onetwo_onetwo
Tue Mar 03 2015, 10:33AM
Registered Member #14185
Joined: Tue Dec 09 2014, 06:08AM
Posts: 39
nawrestler wrote...

All this talk about restructuring the individual format to make more money by getting more spectators is a waste of time. Consider this...who comes to watch the individual tournaments? Parents and family of the wrestlers, coaches and wrestlers that have been knocked out of tournament. Almost no "fans." Recently my high school hired a bus to take students to a girls basketball playoff game at Massasoit. Student fans at an event? You would never see that happen at a sectional tournament. And if you have ever been to a regular season girls basketball game you know that they are short on fans as well. But they filled a bus with students the other day and are planning to do it again today for the sectional semi-final.Now make the dual meet tournament mean something and you might have a version of wrestling that could produce "fans." Nobody wants to sit around for 12 hours in a gym to wait for the finals. Now a 2 hour dual meet for the state title...I'd pay to see that.


My point was not to increase revenue but to decrease cost. It is a completely different discussion on how to increase fan participation. I think that Jim is on the right track with combining tournaments.
Jim Maher
Tue Mar 03 2015, 10:36AM

Joined: Mon Mar 29 2004, 08:09PM
Posts: 4726
Seperate tournaments, combined location.

The number one major expense is Janitors, cut that in half and they have a chance to make $$.

Some of these monster field houses can put down 8 mats easy.
pzacchilli
Tue Mar 03 2015, 10:41AM
Registered Member #13031
Joined: Thu Jan 31 2013, 10:06AM
Posts: 112
nawrestler wrote ...

All this talk about restructuring the individual format to make more money by getting more spectators is a waste of time. Consider this...who comes to watch the individual tournaments? Parents and family of the wrestlers, coaches and wrestlers that have been knocked out of tournament. Almost no "fans." Recently my high school hired a bus to take students to a girls basketball playoff game at Massasoit. Student fans at an event? You would never see that happen at a sectional tournament. And if you have ever been to a regular season girls basketball game you know that they are short on fans as well. But they filled a bus with students the other day and are planning to do it again today for the sectional semi-final.

Now make the dual meet tournament mean something and you might have a version of wrestling that could produce "fans." Nobody wants to sit around for 12 hours in a gym to wait for the finals. Now a 2 hour dual meet for the state title...I'd pay to see that.



100% agree...

The Dual Meet Tournament was the best thing our sport had going and we lost it because of egos and money. I think the format they had in 2011 for the dual meet tournament was the best from a monetary and team involvement standpoint...Sectional Dual Meets before individual sectionals, State Semis wednesday before individual sectionals, all 3 State Finals at the same venue wednesday before states. The atmosphere at these state final duals was unbelieveable, nevermind coaching you couldn't even hear yourself think. I know money was the reason they got rid of the dual meet tournament, but I find it VERY VERY hard to believe that they lost money in that format. Wasted money on Kap in those dual meet tournaments as well. News flash, it is a dual meet! You do not need Kap, you do not need a tournament clerk, you do not need table workers, have your team managers or JVs run the tables and scorebooks, How bout Shrewsbury, Algonquin, Fitchburg, for venues just to name a few? another way to save money since that is apparently our focal point

I fully support whatever tournament realignments or postseason format it would take to bring that back
onetwo_onetwo
Tue Mar 03 2015, 10:41AM
Registered Member #14185
Joined: Tue Dec 09 2014, 06:08AM
Posts: 39
Jim Maher wrote ...

Seperate tournaments, combined location.

The number one major expense is Janitors, cut that in half and they have a chance to make $$.

Some of these monster field houses can put down 8 mats easy.


Agreed. whether there are 2 divisions or 3 divisions. I think combining venues would cut costs that the MIAA doesn't seem to want to pay. This could lead to State Wrestling Duals fitting into the budget.
OACoach
Wed Mar 04 2015, 07:52AM
Registered Member #6261
Joined: Sun Aug 26 2007, 11:58AM
Posts: 346
Pretty sure when the number of team is announced at the beginning of all-states that counts participating school not programs so co-ops are counted as multiple schools(makes Bill Wassel look better)
montytech160
Wed Mar 04 2015, 09:02AM
Registered Member #13806
Joined: Thu Jan 23 2014, 08:44AM
Posts: 335
pzacchilli wrote ...

nawrestler wrote ...

All this talk about restructuring the individual format to make more money by getting more spectators is a waste of time. Consider this...who comes to watch the individual tournaments? Parents and family of the wrestlers, coaches and wrestlers that have been knocked out of tournament. Almost no "fans." Recently my high school hired a bus to take students to a girls basketball playoff game at Massasoit. Student fans at an event? You would never see that happen at a sectional tournament. And if you have ever been to a regular season girls basketball game you know that they are short on fans as well. But they filled a bus with students the other day and are planning to do it again today for the sectional semi-final.

Now make the dual meet tournament mean something and you might have a version of wrestling that could produce "fans." Nobody wants to sit around for 12 hours in a gym to wait for the finals. Now a 2 hour dual meet for the state title...I'd pay to see that.



100% agree...

The Dual Meet Tournament was the best thing our sport had going and we lost it because of egos and money. I think the format they had in 2011 for the dual meet tournament was the best from a monetary and team involvement standpoint...Sectional Dual Meets before individual sectionals, State Semis wednesday before individual sectionals, all 3 State Finals at the same venue wednesday before states. The atmosphere at these state final duals was unbelieveable, nevermind coaching you couldn't even hear yourself think. I know money was the reason they got rid of the dual meet tournament, but I find it VERY VERY hard to believe that they lost money in that format. Wasted money on Kap in those dual meet tournaments as well. News flash, it is a dual meet! You do not need Kap, you do not need a tournament clerk, you do not need table workers, have your team managers or JVs run the tables and scorebooks, How bout Shrewsbury, Algonquin, Fitchburg, for venues just to name a few? another way to save money since that is apparently our focal point

I fully support whatever tournament realignments or postseason format it would take to bring that back

I always say we need to host a tournament at Fitchburg due to their large field house. It has so many possibilities.
CoachGib
Wed Mar 04 2015, 09:24AM
Registered Member #13725
Joined: Sun Jan 05 2014, 06:34PM
Posts: 28
I think we should move to Regionals and State formula while keeping a team/dual state tournament. Maybe make 4 divisions for team/dual states, giving smaller schools more opportunities in dual format to address the perception of "losing out" in the individual regional format (D1S, D2S, D3S meet as individual regional tournament for example).

My understanding is most other states use a regional model. With a regional tournament we can have a regional champ and a state champ, getting rid of the multi state champ model we have now. My belief is Regionals attracts better media coverage (local newspapers), shorter commutes & reduces hotel cost, and includes geographical rivalries.

I also believe the dual tournament is too important to throw away.

I'm curious how MIAA did hosting two sectionals out of one site: one gym fee, single custodian fee, single cop detail fee... Maybe keep that formula until we really figure this out.


GeorgeTheAnimal
Wed Mar 04 2015, 10:17AM
Registered Member #2426
Joined: Tue Nov 08 2005, 02:21PM
Posts: 54
I am not sure why it happened, but the loss of the Dual/Team tournament was a huge loss for the progression of Mass wrestling. It basically diminishes a large component of wrestling, which is the team aspect. The team results from the individual year end tournaments are just not reflective of the true strength of the full teams. Duals are much more "casual" fan friendly than individual tournaments, even with Kapwrestling which is a godsend. I hope the Duals can come back with the MIAA's blessing for the sake of the sport.
tourneygeek
Wed Mar 04 2015, 01:21PM

Joined: Sun Sep 10 2006, 12:00AM
Posts: 519
OACoach wrote ...

Pretty sure when the number of team is announced at the beginning of all-states that counts participating school not programs so co-ops are counted as multiple schools(makes Bill Wassel look better)

No. The large number of schools that were announced included alternates. The co-ops are not double counted. He gets the numbers from me.

onetwo_onetwo
Wed Mar 04 2015, 03:30PM
Registered Member #14185
Joined: Tue Dec 09 2014, 06:08AM
Posts: 39
tourneygeek wrote ...

OACoach wrote ...

Pretty sure when the number of team is announced at the beginning of all-states that counts participating school not programs so co-ops are counted as multiple schools(makes Bill Wassel look better)

No. The large number of schools that were announced included alternates. The co-ops are not double counted. He gets the numbers from me.




Either way, the moral of the story is that Massachusetts does not have the number of teams to warrant three divisions.
Jim Maher
Wed Mar 04 2015, 03:40PM

Joined: Mon Mar 29 2004, 08:09PM
Posts: 4726
MIAA Hockey 205 teams and 5 Divisions? Super 8 and Div 1-4.
Jim Maher
Wed Mar 04 2015, 03:44PM

Joined: Mon Mar 29 2004, 08:09PM
Posts: 4726
I thought wrestling had a lot of Co-op's, hockey has too many.
tourneygeek
Wed Mar 04 2015, 05:14PM

Joined: Sun Sep 10 2006, 12:00AM
Posts: 519
onetwo_onetwo wrote ...

tourneygeek wrote ...

OACoach wrote ...

Pretty sure when the number of team is announced at the beginning of all-states that counts participating school not programs so co-ops are counted as multiple schools(makes Bill Wassel look better)

No. The large number of schools that were announced included alternates. The co-ops are not double counted. He gets the numbers from me.

Either way, the moral of the story is that Massachusetts does not have the number of teams to warrant three divisions.


I don't follow there are more than 150 wrestling schools. What is enough for 3 divisions???

If you look at the divisional states they each had roughly 50 teams in each division.
MMRHS
Wed Mar 04 2015, 05:16PM
Registered Member #10747
Joined: Sun Jan 02 2011, 08:26AM
Posts: 28
Colorado runs all of its' State Tournaments at 1 site. It used to be McNichol's Arena. I think it is in a new building now called the Pepsi Center.
tourneygeek
Thu Mar 05 2015, 01:23AM

Joined: Sun Sep 10 2006, 12:00AM
Posts: 519
onetwo_onetwo wrote ...

tourneygeek wrote ...

OACoach wrote ...

Pretty sure when the number of team is announced at the beginning of all-states that counts participating school not programs so co-ops are counted as multiple schools(makes Bill Wassel look better)

No. The large number of schools that were announced included alternates. The co-ops are not double counted. He gets the numbers from me.

Either way, the moral of the story is that Massachusetts does not have the number of teams to warrant three divisions.


I don't follow there are more than 150 wrestling schools. What is enough for 3 divisions???

If you look at the divisional states they each had roughly 50 teams in each division.
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