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2014-15 All State Predictions  Go to page  1 [2] 3 4 5
t3chfa11
Mon Feb 23 2015, 02:39PM
Registered Member #14186
Joined: Tue Dec 09 2014, 06:48AM
Posts: 71
on the MIAA website it says:
Day 1-
Weigh Ins: 1:00 PM
Coaches Meeting: 2:00 PM
First Round Matches: 3:00-5:30 PM
Quarter Finals and First Round Consolation: 5:30-8:00 PM
Second Round Consolation: 8:00-9:30 PM

Day 2-
Weigh In: 10:00 AM
Coaches Meeting: 10:30 AM
Semi Finals and Third Round Cons: 11:30 AM-2:30 PM
Fourth Round Consolation (Semis): 2:00-3:30 PM
Consolation Finals (3rd and 5th place): 3:30-5:00 PM
All-State Finals: 6:00-8:00 PM

[link]
speedkills
Mon Feb 23 2015, 08:07PM
Registered Member #8281
Joined: Sat Dec 27 2008, 10:44AM
Posts: 305
nb135 wrote ...

speedkills wrote ...

realityking wrote ...

is there any video from the D3 States? I would like to see the Connor Thomson/Morris match. Heard Connor was extremely aggressive....impressive win for a freshman.

106 - Connor/Quabin
113 - Aquino
120 - Kelly (not a deep weight class at all but he is the best)
126 - McDonald
132 - Ryan
138 - Behen
145 - Defosses
152 - Holland
160 - Viruet - OW
170 - Hoehn - look forward to Hughes match in NE's
182 - Humphries
195 - Obrien
220 - Butterbrodt
285 - Shrewsbury



All the weight classes are tough and deep at AllState. At this stage all kids deserve respect.


Not true at all, deep means more then 5 studs, 113 is deep, hvy is deep, 126 is deep, 160 and thats prob... it this is mass not Pa,


I don't agree with your definition at all. All the classes have sevaral ranked kids. My son over the past few years has wrestled with a variety of kids from 106- 138. And, if I had to calibrate the talent across the weight classes, based on the those experiences, and the level of competition he faced, I would have to say they are all very and equally tough in there own right. Respect... these kids are talented at every weight class. And, yes some weight classes have a clear stand out, where they may have competed at a national level. But, for the most part the parity of talent and depth in each class is not much different.
nb135
Mon Feb 23 2015, 10:37PM
Registered Member #6515
Joined: Sun Dec 09 2007, 09:42AM
Posts: 1216
speedkills wrote ...

nb135 wrote ...

speedkills wrote ...

realityking wrote ...

is there any video from the D3 States? I would like to see the Connor Thomson/Morris match. Heard Connor was extremely aggressive....impressive win for a freshman.

106 - Connor/Quabin
113 - Aquino
120 - Kelly (not a deep weight class at all but he is the best)
126 - McDonald
132 - Ryan
138 - Behen
145 - Defosses
152 - Holland
160 - Viruet - OW
170 - Hoehn - look forward to Hughes match in NE's
182 - Humphries
195 - Obrien
220 - Butterbrodt
285 - Shrewsbury



All the weight classes are tough and deep at AllState. At this stage all kids deserve respect.


Not true at all, deep means more then 5 studs, 113 is deep, hvy is deep, 126 is deep, 160 and thats prob... it this is mass not Pa,


I don't agree with your definition at all. All the classes have sevaral ranked kids. My son over the past few years has wrestled with a variety of kids from 106- 138. And, if I had to calibrate the talent across the weight classes, based on the those experiences, and the level of competition he faced, I would have to say they are all very and equally tough in there own right. Respect... these kids are talented at every weight class. And, yes some weight classes have a clear stand out, where they may have competed at a national level. But, for the most part the parity of talent and depth in each class is not much different.

You prob... weren't around the sport that long then cuz im comparing it to something it was when i wrestled 6-10 years ago, the top guy's now can compete with the top guy's then, but depth its not like it usto be, rankings proves it, it took a month just to get 10 guys in a weight they had to search for top guys, to get in there back then that was not the case, its not putting down the studs its just stating the facts, I dont care how good Butterbrodt is he should not be able to pin prob.. a top 5 guy in new england and deff.. in mass, i dont think he does that if he wrestled in 08, he would of got someone has good as harty every year, Its sad to see how much it changed, hopefully it changes back soon,
wrest0022
Mon Feb 23 2015, 10:39PM
Registered Member #10496
Joined: Wed Oct 06 2010, 02:08AM
Posts: 35
Benoit injured as well ?
AHS611
Mon Feb 23 2015, 10:59PM
Registered Member #7279
Joined: Sun Feb 10 2008, 06:15PM
Posts: 330
The depth has not changed that dramatically in the last 6-10 years. I find it funny when people say "oh, the talent level is down." I was coaching 8 years ago, and those kids you probably thought added incredible depth aren't much different than the depth there is now. It's all relative.
nb135
Mon Feb 23 2015, 11:10PM
Registered Member #6515
Joined: Sun Dec 09 2007, 09:42AM
Posts: 1216
AHS611 wrote ...

The depth has not changed that dramatically in the last 6-10 years. I find it funny when people say "oh, the talent level is down." I was coaching 8 years ago, and those kids you probably thought added incredible depth aren't much different than the depth there is now. It's all relative.

I can name a list of unranked kids who would be top 10 now a days who werent then, outside of top 6 now a days its a huge drop and by top 6 i mean talent wise not just allstate finishers, because there are a few who miss out at allstates due to injuries, missing weight, and having 1 bad tournament at states like the 120 from Prep top 5 all year but wrestled bad when it matters happens every year and at all levels, just part of our great sport! theres only maybe 4 weight classes with 10 very good wrestlers thats awful. your in the minority from former coaches and wrestlers
Chase112
Mon Feb 23 2015, 11:12PM
Registered Member #13675
Joined: Sun Dec 22 2013, 12:54PM
Posts: 39
AHS611 wrote ...

The depth has not changed that dramatically in the last 6-10 years. I find it funny when people say "oh, the talent level is down." I was coaching 8 years ago, and those kids you probably thought added incredible depth aren't much different than the depth there is now. It's all relative.


If the depth hasn't changed then explain to me why six Western Mass. teams have folded in the last 15 years and only seven out of 32 in the region can fill a full lineup.

I do agree with you, though, there is still plenty of good top-level talent statewide.
nb135
Mon Feb 23 2015, 11:29PM
Registered Member #6515
Joined: Sun Dec 09 2007, 09:42AM
Posts: 1216
Chase112 wrote ...

AHS611 wrote ...

The depth has not changed that dramatically in the last 6-10 years. I find it funny when people say "oh, the talent level is down." I was coaching 8 years ago, and those kids you probably thought added incredible depth aren't much different than the depth there is now. It's all relative.


If the depth hasn't changed then explain to me why six Western Mass. teams have folded in the last 15 years and only seven out of 32 in the region can fill a full lineup.

I do agree with you, though, there is still plenty of good top-level talent statewide.

Amen!! thats what i am trying to say, and i do agree give me Viruet,hoehn,butterbrodt,Aquino and many more top guys but the depth is not like it use to be there usto be over 100 studs i don't think we are near 100 studs in mass, i would post all my studs but i dont think its right to the wrestlers as there still kids so i will treat them as such
AHS611
Tue Feb 24 2015, 12:27AM
Registered Member #7279
Joined: Sun Feb 10 2008, 06:15PM
Posts: 330
Depth hasn't changed. Six Western Mass teams might be out, however, Chicopee, Chicopee Comp, Mahar, Smith Voke, Pathfinder, Sabis, Hampden Charter all didn't exist or were brand new a decade ago. Sometimes coops change, host schools change, but its just turnover, not necessarily shrinking. And many of these teams still struggled to fill the weights back then too.

Meanwhile, back east, Algonquin, Beverly, Dighton-Rehoboth, Pembroke, Bristol-Plymouth, Bristol Aggie, Oliver Ames, Plymouth North, Barnstable, Danvers, Essex Tech, Gloucester, Peabody, Hopkinton, Bellingham, Andover, AMSA, Josiah Quincy/Dorchester, and Northbridge all didn't have teams or at least weren't hosting their own teams just over a decade ago either. Some of those young programs have established pretty strong traditions already.
nb135
Tue Feb 24 2015, 12:58AM
Registered Member #6515
Joined: Sun Dec 09 2007, 09:42AM
Posts: 1216
AHS611 wrote ...

Depth hasn't changed. Six Western Mass teams might be out, however, Chicopee, Chicopee Comp, Mahar, Smith Voke, Pathfinder, Sabis, Hampden Charter all didn't exist or were brand new a decade ago. Sometimes coops change, host schools change, but its just turnover, not necessarily shrinking. And many of these teams still struggled to fill the weights back then too.

Meanwhile, back east, Algonquin, Beverly, Dighton-Rehoboth, Pembroke, Bristol-Plymouth, Bristol Aggie, Oliver Ames, Plymouth North, Barnstable, Danvers, Essex Tech, Gloucester, Peabody, Hopkinton, Bellingham, Andover, AMSA, Josiah Quincy/Dorchester, and Northbridge all didn't have teams or at least weren't hosting their own teams just over a decade ago either. Some of those young programs have established pretty strong traditions already.

having a team does not mean anything lol its about how good the teams are. I will give you perfect examples of then and now. Brockton who don't get me wrong what they did for that program is remarkable and cudos to there coaching staff for job well done, They won sectionals for d1 South last week but at d1 States with a decent showing from there top guys they still only finished 15th, They says a lot of how down wrestling has gotten in the South. When I competed we had to battle with 3 teams to win our section and we were a top 5 team in the state! in d1 South We had Weymouth,Plymouth South,New Bedford, B-R and Mansfield for a year. all power houses, Now we dont have one in d1, we have a few in all combining al divisions we had more in 1 division then then all together now. Im not sure how you can argue with these facts.
AHS611
Tue Feb 24 2015, 06:40AM
Registered Member #7279
Joined: Sun Feb 10 2008, 06:15PM
Posts: 330
None of those are facts. They're your opinion that one out of twelve sections was stronger ten years ago than it was this year. For every example of a team or section you can give me that is "down" this year, I could give you one that is much improved from ten years ago. Every program goes in cycles and they balance each other out. Sectionals in general are watered down because they're too small, but that's not a commentary on the quality of the teams overall.
nb135
Tue Feb 24 2015, 07:06AM
Registered Member #6515
Joined: Sun Dec 09 2007, 09:42AM
Posts: 1216
AHS611 wrote ...

None of those are facts. They're your opinion that one out of twelve sections was stronger ten years ago than it was this year. For every example of a team or section you can give me that is "down" this year, I could give you one that is much improved from ten years ago. Every program goes in cycles and they balance each other out. Sectionals in general are watered down because they're too small, but that's not a commentary on the quality of the teams overall.

No you can't tho lol that is why you haven't done that yet because you can't compare I believe Lowell in 07 is the last mass team to win New Englands
CoachB
Tue Feb 24 2015, 07:20AM
Registered Member #303
Joined: Fri Apr 09 2004, 08:24PM
Posts: 487

AHS611 wrote ...

The depth has not changed that dramatically in the last 6-10 years. I find it funny when people say "oh, the talent level is down." I was coaching 8 years ago, and those kids you probably thought added incredible depth aren't much different than the depth there is now. It's all relative.
If the depth hasn't changed then explain to me why six Western Mass. teams have folded in the last 15 years and only seven out of 32 in the region can fill a full lineup.

I do agree with you, though, there is still plenty of good top-level talent statewide.
[/quote1424783688]

One of the things that really bothers me about the losses of those teams is that two of the state's most successful wrestlers ever came from those folded programs. Sam Kline (Amherst) was a 2x Division I all-American and won at least one international event. Yelena Pirozhkova (Greenfield) is a world champ. Without those programs, future stars from those towns may never get to experience the sport. Those programs were not strong programs, but were able to give kids a chance and some of those kids really produced.

nastyhalf
Tue Feb 24 2015, 09:43AM
Registered Member #138
Joined: Fri Mar 26 2004, 12:59PM
Posts: 214
I think it is a natural human reaction to think the past was better. a couple of thoughts.

1. In the past this site was much more active amoung the kids, so the rankings team had more info to fill their 10 spots.
2. Has anyone done a study on MA kids wrestling in college? That would be extremely enlightening to this topic.
3. Overall the sport is growing in involvement.
4. Overall technique has improved from the use of technology and the growing popularity of the off-season clubs.
5. Placing at the All States continues to be a feat worthy of praise.

Believing that Johnny U was better than Brady is folly. They were both the best of their era and that's all you can ever accomplish. The rest is opinion & we all know what those are like.
Patsfan
Tue Feb 24 2015, 09:59AM
Registered Member #4545
Joined: Sun Nov 26 2006, 06:45PM
Posts: 592
NB135 I think you’re being very naïve. You know why we have kids head and shoulders above their competition, like Viruet, Fritz and Butterbrodt? The era that you referenced (mid 2000’s) was the early stages of the jumping off point for some of the most successful wrestling clubs in New England. Those kids were in elementary school learning the same techniques on display at the NCAA Finals… never mind the Massachusetts All States Tournament and now they are 17-18 years old. So yes, they are that much better than the vast majority of their competition. There is another generation that was behind the Viruet’s, Fritz’s and the Butterbrodt’s who were in kindergarten. Take a look at how many freshman/sophomores were in the state finals, there were 4 freshmen finalists that I know of at D2. Look at how many freshman/sophomores will be in Salem next week.

From where I am sitting, you’re “back in my day” argument really doesn’t have any substance to it either.

Sorry to any boys whose names I may have butchered.
dbreen
Tue Feb 24 2015, 10:12AM
Registered Member #2315
Joined: Tue Oct 18 2005, 02:23PM
Posts: 725
Six guys won their third state title this year. That's never happened! Almost every athlete who was a state champ is affiliated with a club, and wrestles in the off season. The emergence of clubs has improved wrestling technique greatly in this state. I started coaching in 1978, the kids are technically better than they've ever been. I think the depth is as good today as it's ever been. The kids are a lot more technical but not nearly as physical. Does being physical mean you are tougher or better? I have no idea. Every generation has their stars. Those stars think everyone who came before or after isn't nearly as good as they were. They're wrong! Today's champs can hang with last years champs and champs from ten years ago. Thirty years ago my entire team played at least two sports, most of them played three. Now the majority wrestle and a few maybe play lacrosse. Football coaches seem to be demanding more specialization from their players;(they're hoarding athletes) that hurts wrestling. But the young guys today like Morris, Bechen etc. will make their own place in history!
coachm
Tue Feb 24 2015, 10:40AM
Registered Member #47
Joined: Wed Mar 24 2004, 11:00PM
Posts: 389
Coach B wrote: One of the things that really bothers me about the losses of those teams is that two of the state's most successful wrestlers ever came from those folded programs. Sam Kline (Amherst) was a 2x Division I all-American and won at least one international event. Yelena Pirozhkova (Greenfield) is a world champ. Without those programs, future stars from those towns may never get to experience the sport. Those programs were not strong programs, but were able to give kids a chance and some of those kids really produced.

dbreen wrote: Six guys won their third state title this year. That's never happened! Almost every athlete who was a state champ is affiliated with a club, and wrestles in the off season. The emergence of clubs has improved wrestling technique greatly in this state. I started coaching in 1978, the kids are technically better than they've ever been. I think the depth is as good today as it's ever been. The kids are a lot more technical but not nearly as physical. Does being physical mean you are tougher or better? I have no idea. Every generation has their stars. Those stars think everyone who came before or after isn't nearly as good as they were. They're wrong!

AMEN
AHS611
Tue Feb 24 2015, 11:47AM
Registered Member #7279
Joined: Sun Feb 10 2008, 06:15PM
Posts: 330
nb135 wrote ...

AHS611 wrote ...

None of those are facts. They're your opinion that one out of twelve sections was stronger ten years ago than it was this year. For every example of a team or section you can give me that is "down" this year, I could give you one that is much improved from ten years ago. Every program goes in cycles and they balance each other out. Sectionals in general are watered down because they're too small, but that's not a commentary on the quality of the teams overall.

No you can't tho lol that is why you haven't done that yet because you can't compare I believe Lowell in 07 is the last mass team to win New Englands


Someone cue up Mellancamp's "Glory Days".

I gave you 26 teams that are better than they were 10 years ago because they didn't exist. Behen, the Hollands, Freyermuth, Benoit, Sokol, Kolby Smith - all kids who won a state title last weekend that might not have been able to 10-15 years ago because their schools didnt have teams. Hopkinton won a sectional title last year. Josiah Quincy placed 3rd at D3 States a couple years back. Algonquin placed 5 kids this past weekend. Need more? A mass team not winning NEs since 07 is MORE of a sign that our state is deeper, not less. It's harder for teams to dominate and send enough kids to NEs to win as a team. I believe Mt.Anthony's lost to Central in a dual a couple years ago, and Prep beat Timberlane this year. Our best teams are still among the best in NE, even if they're not winning a "team" title.
JasonEzraGanz
Tue Feb 24 2015, 02:55PM
Registered Member #14151
Joined: Fri Nov 07 2014, 02:37PM
Posts: 52
What are the teams that folded recently: Greenfield, Amherst? just curious. Overall the numbers of teams in the state is on an upswing.

I would love to see more teams on the cape, Falmouth/Dennis-Yarmouth would be potential new teams given their respective closeness to the rest of MA and school enrollment

In Bristol County- Attleboro,Dartmouth. Seekonk and Westport are growth needed growth areas, again given their enrollment and proximity to traditional powerhouse New Bedford/Brockton.

In Essex County: Lynn English/Classical as well as Manchester Regional are logical expansion areas

In Hamden County I predict growth perhaps at Palmer HS

Middlesex County- it would be nice to see Medford HS, Somerville HS, Stoneham

Norfolk County-Avon High School- Dover/Sherborne, Medway HS, Medfield HS could be added


Plymouth County: Apponequet Regional High School in lakeville
Old Colony Regional Vocational Technical High School, Rochester
Old Rochester Regional High School, Mattapoisett
West Bridgewater Middle-Senior High School

Suffolk County-

Winthrop HS
Revere HS

Worcester County-Gardner HS
Lunenberg HS
Shrewsbury HS

there arent that many glaring black holes of wrestling left in MA!


montytech160
Tue Feb 24 2015, 03:33PM
Registered Member #13806
Joined: Thu Jan 23 2014, 08:44AM
Posts: 335
nb135 wrote ...

speedkills wrote ...

nb135 wrote ...

speedkills wrote ...

realityking wrote ...

is there any video from the D3 States? I would like to see the Connor Thomson/Morris match. Heard Connor was extremely aggressive....impressive win for a freshman.

106 - Connor/Quabin
113 - Aquino
120 - Kelly (not a deep weight class at all but he is the best)
126 - McDonald
132 - Ryan
138 - Behen
145 - Defosses
152 - Holland
160 - Viruet - OW
170 - Hoehn - look forward to Hughes match in NE's
182 - Humphries
195 - Obrien
220 - Butterbrodt
285 - Shrewsbury



All the weight classes are tough and deep at AllState. At this stage all kids deserve respect.


Not true at all, deep means more then 5 studs, 113 is deep, hvy is deep, 126 is deep, 160 and thats prob... it this is mass not Pa,


I don't agree with your definition at all. All the classes have sevaral ranked kids. My son over the past few years has wrestled with a variety of kids from 106- 138. And, if I had to calibrate the talent across the weight classes, based on the those experiences, and the level of competition he faced, I would have to say they are all very and equally tough in there own right. Respect... these kids are talented at every weight class. And, yes some weight classes have a clear stand out, where they may have competed at a national level. But, for the most part the parity of talent and depth in each class is not much different.

You prob... weren't around the sport that long then cuz im comparing it to something it was when i wrestled 6-10 years ago, the top guy's now can compete with the top guy's then, but depth its not like it usto be, rankings proves it, it took a month just to get 10 guys in a weight they had to search for top guys, to get in there back then that was not the case, its not putting down the studs its just stating the facts, I dont care how good Butterbrodt is he should not be able to pin prob.. a top 5 guy in new england and deff.. in mass, i dont think he does that if he wrestled in 08, he would of got someone has good as harty every year, Its sad to see how much it changed, hopefully it changes back soon,

Lol to bad Butterbrodt is a 2 time super 32 finalist and ranked on flo. Pretty sure he probably still would be pinning your top 5 in new england guys.
massrat
Tue Feb 24 2015, 03:34PM
Registered Member #14362
Joined: Mon Feb 09 2015, 05:07PM
Posts: 23
As a transplanted Midwesterner I have a few observations. 1) The overall level of wrestling has improved dramatically over the last decade in MA, but it has also improved in other states. So while we have closed some of the gaps, we are still far from an elite state (i.e., Ohio, New York, PA, etc.) 2) wrestling fan support is not at the same level as the elite states. Family and friends support it in MA, but it is not a way of life. State tournaments are an "event" that will draw 10 to 15,000 fans at a large civic center in the elite states. That fan support helps take the quality of wrestling up as kids love to participate in front of big crowds in a big arena rather than a few hundred fans at high school gym. That draws better athletes and ultimately improves the quality.

As to relative quality over time, I love who ever made the Johnny U / Tom Brady comparison. They were / are both the best of their time. But with differences in coaching, training, facilities, innovation, etc. there is now way to compare them fairly. Both are great quarterbacks. And there have been great wrestlers over time. Just different. Does not make one better than the other. Kind of like when I tell my kids I walked uphill to school in the morning and uphill to home after school. We only remember what we want to remember.

All that said, the state of wrestling in MA is good and getting better. A growing number of club programs to supplement the offseason for the kids who are committed and want to become state champs. It is a great sport because a kid who wants to put in the effort can have outstanding results, even in only an average athlete.

We need to be thankful to our coaches, both club and school. They are not doing this to get rich. They are doing it because they love the sport. More importantly, many of them have such positive impact on the young men off the mat as well as on the mat. I worry a lot less, almost not at all, about what my kid is doing in the offseason when at a Saturday tournament rather than what he might be doing if not wrestling. Next time you are tempted to complain about a coach, ask yourself what you can do to help rather than have a negative opinion you voice on something you might disagree with.

Finally, no matter if a kid is a state champion or just an average Joe, they are working hard to get better. It is one of the hardest sports. Unlike some sports where practice might be fun, practice IS NOT fun. The fun in wrestling is the end result and the relationships that you see kids make with other kids, on their team, in their club, and with kids they compete against. So while we are all tempted to measure success in terms of wins and losses, I would ask you to also measure it terms of overall development next time you think about it.
CoachB
Tue Feb 24 2015, 05:17PM
Registered Member #303
Joined: Fri Apr 09 2004, 08:24PM
Posts: 487
JasonEzraGanz wrote ...

What are the teams that folded recently: Greenfield, Amherst? just curious. Overall the numbers of teams in the state is on an upswing.

I would love to see more teams on the cape, Falmouth/Dennis-Yarmouth would be potential new teams given their respective closeness to the rest of MA and school enrollment

In Bristol County- Attleboro,Dartmouth. Seekonk and Westport are growth needed growth areas, again given their enrollment and proximity to traditional powerhouse New Bedford/Brockton.

In Essex County: Lynn English/Classical as well as Manchester Regional are logical expansion areas

In Hamden County I predict growth perhaps at Palmer HS

Middlesex County- it would be nice to see Medford HS, Somerville HS, Stoneham

Norfolk County-Avon High School- Dover/Sherborne, Medway HS, Medfield HS could be added


Plymouth County: Apponequet Regional High School in lakeville
Old Colony Regional Vocational Technical High School, Rochester
Old Rochester Regional High School, Mattapoisett
West Bridgewater Middle-Senior High School

Suffolk County-

Winthrop HS
Revere HS

Worcester County-Gardner HS
Lunenberg HS
Shrewsbury HS

there arent that many glaring black holes of wrestling left in MA!




I looked back to 2003 when I began coaching in D1W. If my numbers are correct, we have a net gain of one school in that time period (six down; 7 added). I may be wrong.

More worrisome is the number of programs with very low numbers. Check out Brandon Chase's excellent (but depressing article on Masslive. Over a period of three weeks, I did three Wednesday night duals with a total of 14 bouts!!! This included teams with multiple state medalists. The West may be have gained a program over the past decade or so, but there are a lot of programs currently in danger.

I really don't see Palmer adding.
speedkills
Tue Feb 24 2015, 05:26PM
Registered Member #8281
Joined: Sat Dec 27 2008, 10:44AM
Posts: 305
massrat wrote ...

As a transplanted Midwesterner I have a few observations. 1) The overall level of wrestling has improved dramatically over the last decade in MA, but it has also improved in other states. So while we have closed some of the gaps, we are still far from an elite state (i.e., Ohio, New York, PA, etc.) 2) wrestling fan support is not at the same level as the elite states. Family and friends support it in MA, but it is not a way of life. State tournaments are an "event" that will draw 10 to 15,000 fans at a large civic center in the elite states. That fan support helps take the quality of wrestling up as kids love to participate in front of big crowds in a big arena rather than a few hundred fans at high school gym. That draws better athletes and ultimately improves the quality.

As to relative quality over time, I love who ever made the Johnny U / Tom Brady comparison. They were / are both the best of their time. But with differences in coaching, training, facilities, innovation, etc. there is now way to compare them fairly. Both are great quarterbacks. And there have been great wrestlers over time. Just different. Does not make one better than the other. Kind of like when I tell my kids I walked uphill to school in the morning and uphill to home after school. We only remember what we want to remember.

All that said, the state of wrestling in MA is good and getting better. A growing number of club programs to supplement the offseason for the kids who are committed and want to become state champs. It is a great sport because a kid who wants to put in the effort can have outstanding results, even in only an average athlete.

We need to be thankful to our coaches, both club and school. They are not doing this to get rich. They are doing it because they love the sport. More importantly, many of them have such positive impact on the young men off the mat as well as on the mat. I worry a lot less, almost not at all, about what my kid is doing in the offseason when at a Saturday tournament rather than what he might be doing if not wrestling. Next time you are tempted to complain about a coach, ask yourself what you can do to help rather than have a negative opinion you voice on something you might disagree with.

Finally, no matter if a kid is a state champion or just an average Joe, they are working hard to get better. It is one of the hardest sports. Unlike some sports where practice might be fun, practice IS NOT fun. The fun in wrestling is the end result and the relationships that you see kids make with other kids, on their team, in their club, and with kids they compete against. So while we are all tempted to measure success in terms of wins and losses, I would ask you to also measure it terms of overall development next time you think about it.




Well said.
speedkills
Tue Feb 24 2015, 06:01PM
Registered Member #8281
Joined: Sat Dec 27 2008, 10:44AM
Posts: 305
nb135 wrote ...

AHS611 wrote ...

The depth has not changed that dramatically in the last 6-10 years. I find it funny when people say "oh, the talent level is down." I was coaching 8 years ago, and those kids you probably thought added incredible depth aren't much different than the depth there is now. It's all relative.

I can name a list of unranked kids who would be top 10 now a days who werent then, outside of top 6 now a days its a huge drop and by top 6 i mean talent wise not just allstate finishers, because there are a few who miss out at allstates due to injuries, missing weight, and having 1 bad tournament at states like the 120 from Prep top 5 all year but wrestled bad when it matters happens every year and at all levels, just part of our great sport! theres only maybe 4 weight classes with 10 very good wrestlers thats awful. your in the minority from former coaches and wrestlers


oo
montytech160
Tue Feb 24 2015, 06:23PM
Registered Member #13806
Joined: Thu Jan 23 2014, 08:44AM
Posts: 335
JasonEzraGanz wrote ...

What are the teams that folded recently: Greenfield, Amherst? just curious. Overall the numbers of teams in the state is on an upswing.

I would love to see more teams on the cape, Falmouth/Dennis-Yarmouth would be potential new teams given their respective closeness to the rest of MA and school enrollment

In Bristol County- Attleboro,Dartmouth. Seekonk and Westport are growth needed growth areas, again given their enrollment and proximity to traditional powerhouse New Bedford/Brockton.

In Essex County: Lynn English/Classical as well as Manchester Regional are logical expansion areas

In Hamden County I predict growth perhaps at Palmer HS

Middlesex County- it would be nice to see Medford HS, Somerville HS, Stoneham

Norfolk County-Avon High School- Dover/Sherborne, Medway HS, Medfield HS could be added


Plymouth County: Apponequet Regional High School in lakeville
Old Colony Regional Vocational Technical High School, Rochester
Old Rochester Regional High School, Mattapoisett
West Bridgewater Middle-Senior High School

Suffolk County-

Winthrop HS
Revere HS

Worcester County-Gardner HS
Lunenberg HS
Shrewsbury HS

there arent that many glaring black holes of wrestling left in MA!




We are actually trying to get a co-op program with lunenburg and gardener over these next couple years, but for worcester county teams you forgot Wachusett High School and North Middlesex High School. Another team to mention is Nashoba Tech.
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