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Quite the shootout in D3  Go to page  1 [2] 3
mrvinny
Sun Feb 22 2015, 05:58AM
Registered Member #1814
Joined: Wed Mar 02 2005, 12:17PM
Posts: 261
I attended the D3 state meet and want to commend the staff at Wakefield for a job well done. It was one of the best run tournaments I have attended in a long time. With regard to the officials, I also thought they did a very good job. Obviously with 4 matches at once you can't see them all, but I observed officials in control of the matches and making the right calls
GrayDawg
Sun Feb 22 2015, 07:55AM
Registered Member #4288
Joined: Thu Sep 07 2006, 09:05PM
Posts: 530
mrvinny wrote ...

I attended the D3 state meet and want to commend the staff at Wakefield for a job well done. It was one of the best run tournaments I have attended in a long time. With regard to the officials, I also thought they did a very good job. Obviously with 4 matches at once you can't see them all, but I observed officials in control of the matches and making the right calls


Couldn't agree more. We were there both days and Ross & his crew did a fantastic job with regards to efficiency, accuracy & professionalism of event staff. That was the blueprint as to how to run a great State Divison Wrestling Championship.

Now- how about some of those upsets? Please understand, when I use the term 'upset', I am simply referring to the the top seeded wrestler in the weight class not winning in the finals. This is by no means meant as a slight to the wrestler who won- I know alot of these kids and are freinds with some of their parents, it was a huge accomplishment on their part beating the kids they did on the way to their respective championships.

106 - Thompson over Morris (did anyone who isn't from Quabbin see this voming?)

138 - Behen over Weir (beating a 3-time State Champ who placed 3rd at New England's last year is quite the accomplishment)

152 - Holland over Boyle (and Holland had to beat Galanis in the Semi's to get to the Finals with Boyle)

170 - Kolby Smith (West 2 Seed from Sabis knocks off three #1 Seeds enroute to his Championship)

Those are the ones which jumped out to me- any others?
NotNorwood
Sun Feb 22 2015, 08:32AM
Registered Member #12132
Joined: Fri Apr 27 2012, 10:20PM
Posts: 139
GrayDawg wrote ...


138 - Behen over Weir (beating a 3-time State Champ who placed 3rd at New England's last year is quite the accomplishment)

Those are the ones which jumped out to me- any others?


Weir losing was easily the biggest shocker. Chris Behen is a phenomenal wrestler but lets be serious, this was almost like Dan Gable losing his last college match. I know I am going to receive scrutiny for saying that but its that shocking.

As for others, I would more say that the injury bug played a huge effect:

113: Bryon Hopkins, the #1 seed, getting injured in the first round

120: Ryan Stanton, the #1 seed, continuing to have injury problems

138: Brian Kelley, returning state finalist and #3 seed, injured in 2nd round

170: Elliot Johnson, the #2 seed, getting hurt in the 2nd round

mray
Sun Feb 22 2015, 09:43AM
Registered Member #278
Joined: Mon Jan 16 2006, 10:06AM
Posts: 1127
Ok, I'm sure I won't be popular after this but I'm not interested in popularity. I watched 4 matches last night that made me sick to my stomach for the kids involved. Throughout the weekend I kept observing back points being given after the breakage of a 90 degree angle. News flash!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's 45 degrees!!!!!!!! Or something , at least , close to that. Going back to the finals ,and if you were there you can figure out which 4 bouts I'm talking about, I saw 4 kid and coaches that should feel shortchanged by how the matches were administered. I , as well as many of my colleagues, wonder why there are assistant referees when they either aren't paying attention, are out of position, or certain said officials will not listen to them. It's pointless unless they work together. I realize it is a tough job to officiate; I did it for around 11 years. However, I did have some clue as to the difference between 45 degrees and 90 degrees. I'll bring some protractors next week just in case someone doesn't know the difference and know that the only ones who might be offended are the ones who are probably guilty. I'll be ok because I'm not of the generation of people that gets offended by too much. I'm just tired of watching wrestlers get short changed by the lack of attentive officiating. There were times I felt that "Stevie and Helen" could have made better decisions. Hopefully next weekend will produce the best of the best. I know that part of me says "don't press send" but being who I am I'm going to do it anyway.
Ross and his "Gang" did a great job all weekend. Next year we should be in the Berkshires. See you all next weekend.
mrvinny
Sun Feb 22 2015, 10:06AM
Registered Member #1814
Joined: Wed Mar 02 2005, 12:17PM
Posts: 261
GrayDawg wrote ...

mrvinny wrote ...

I attended the D3 state meet and want to commend the staff at Wakefield for a job well done. It was one of the best run tournaments I have attended in a long time. With regard to the officials, I also thought they did a very good job. Obviously with 4 matches at once you can't see them all, but I observed officials in control of the matches and making the right calls


Couldn't agree more. We were there both days and Ross & his crew did a fantastic job with regards to efficiency, accuracy & professionalism of event staff. That was the blueprint as to how to run a great State Divison Wrestling Championship.

Now- how about some of those upsets? Please understand, when I use the term 'upset', I am simply referring to the the top seeded wrestler in the weight class not winning in the finals. This is by no means meant as a slight to the wrestler who won- I know alot of these kids and are freinds with some of their parents, it was a huge accomplishment on their part beating the kids they did on the way to their respective championships.

106 - Thompson over Morris (did anyone who isn't from Quabbin see this voming?)

138 - Behen over Weir (beating a 3-time State Champ who placed 3rd at New England's last year is quite the accomplishment)

152 - Holland over Boyle (and Holland had to beat Galanis in the Semi's to get to the Finals with Boyle)

170 - Kolby Smith (West 2 Seed from Sabis knocks off three #1 Seeds enroute to his Championship)

Those are the ones which jumped out to me- any others?


mrvinny
Sun Feb 22 2015, 10:11AM
Registered Member #1814
Joined: Wed Mar 02 2005, 12:17PM
Posts: 261
not sure what shocked me more Thompson or Behan. In some ways it was Thompson because as you noted we hadn't heard anything about him all year

You could make the case for Behan- it was not just the win but the manner in which it happened

Finally a tip of the hat to Holland at 152- I don't think anyone saw that one coming either- except for him and his coaches. Jumping the 1 and 2 from the previous week was very impressive
NGamble
Sun Feb 22 2015, 10:19AM
Registered Member #43
Joined: Wed Mar 24 2004, 10:08PM
Posts: 159
NotNorwood wrote ...


That would have been pretty embarrassing had Dedham won though. They really only had 4 kids wrestle, they all did very well but still.


What's so embarrassing about it?
NotNorwood
Sun Feb 22 2015, 10:35AM
Registered Member #12132
Joined: Fri Apr 27 2012, 10:20PM
Posts: 139
NGamble wrote ...

NotNorwood wrote ...


That would have been pretty embarrassing had Dedham won though. They really only had 4 kids wrestle, they all did very well but still.


What's so embarrassing about it?



Awarding a "team" championship to essentially 4 wrestlers
ScitMSWrestling
Sun Feb 22 2015, 10:49AM
Registered Member #10986
Joined: Sun Feb 06 2011, 06:47AM
Posts: 22
Just my opinion but I say to finish so high with points earned by only 4 wrestlers is FAR from embarrassing - more reflective of QUALITY over quantity. A high amount of "entered wrestlers" just means you were very successful at Sectionals which doesn't make a team any more or less deserving of recognition at States.
Carlascooz
Sun Feb 22 2015, 11:04AM
Registered Member #11519
Joined: Sun Jan 22 2012, 09:43PM
Posts: 250
ScitMSWrestling wrote ...

Just my opinion but I say to finish so high with points earned by only 4 wrestlers is FAR from embarrassing - more reflective of QUALITY over quantity. A high amount of "entered wrestlers" just means you were very successful at Sectionals which doesn't make a team any more or less deserving of recognition at States.


I disagree. This wasn't a knock on Dedham or their wrestlers\coaches. It was a knock on tournament scoring. And I think NotNorwood is right. A team with 4 outstanding individuals is not as impressive (in terms of team strength) as a team with 14 good wrestlers.
nastyhalf
Sun Feb 22 2015, 11:04AM
Registered Member #138
Joined: Fri Mar 26 2004, 12:59PM
Posts: 214
FMS wrote ...

I'm confused. There was a divisional dual meet tourney this year, right? I thought there was, and because we placed top 4 as a team at sectionals, I think we're in "it" next year? Sounds like the MOST perfect way to set this thing up ahead of time for schools to fit it into their schedule, but maybe I'm wrong about the specifics….

Actually there wasn't, the MIAA will not recognize it. What exists is just like any other quad during the season in the eyes of the all powerful MIAA. The coaches who believe it is important to have a Dual Meet Championship put it together.

Again I want to commend all the best tournament teams, they deserve recognition and a title.

I simply believe that the best team of 14 also deserves recognition and a title as state champs. It is like saying the best miler in the state doesn't deserve recognition because he can't win the 100 yard dash. They are both running so only award 1 championship.
bsl
Sun Feb 22 2015, 12:31PM
Registered Member #2497
Joined: Wed Nov 09 2005, 01:32PM
Posts: 49
Carlascooz wrote ...

ScitMSWrestling wrote ...

Just my opinion but I say to finish so high with points earned by only 4 wrestlers is FAR from embarrassing - more reflective of QUALITY over quantity. A high amount of "entered wrestlers" just means you were very successful at Sectionals which doesn't make a team any more or less deserving of recognition at States.


I disagree. This wasn't a knock on Dedham or their wrestlers\coaches. It was a knock on tournament scoring. And I think NotNorwood is right. A team with 4 outstanding individuals is not as impressive (in terms of team strength) as a team with 14 good wrestlers.


NGamble
Sun Feb 22 2015, 01:19PM
Registered Member #43
Joined: Wed Mar 24 2004, 10:08PM
Posts: 159
NotNorwood wrote ...

NGamble wrote ...

NotNorwood wrote ...


That would have been pretty embarrassing had Dedham won though. They really only had 4 kids wrestle, they all did very well but still.


What's so embarrassing about it?



Awarding a "team" championship to essentially 4 wrestlers


I think you need to learn to choose your words more wisely.
ScitMSWrestling
Sun Feb 22 2015, 01:39PM
Registered Member #10986
Joined: Sun Feb 06 2011, 06:47AM
Posts: 22
Carlascooz wrote ...

ScitMSWrestling wrote ...

Just my opinion but I say to finish so high with points earned by only 4 wrestlers is FAR from embarrassing - more reflective of QUALITY over quantity. A high amount of "entered wrestlers" just means you were very successful at Sectionals which doesn't make a team any more or less deserving of recognition at States.


I disagree. This wasn't a knock on Dedham or their wrestlers\coaches. It was a knock on tournament scoring. And I think NotNorwood is right. A team with 4 outstanding individuals is not as impressive (in terms of team strength) as a team with 14 good wrestlers.



Valid point ... kind of makes me wonder why we even bother tracking team points at these tourneys? Isn't the emphasis at this point of the season on the achievements of individuals - especially since MIAA took away the official dual tourneys?
jmachinder
Sun Feb 22 2015, 01:45PM
Registered Member #504
Joined: Thu Jul 22 2004, 11:56PM
Posts: 876
I think it's an a good message to send to smaller programs and smaller schools. Wrestling is a long season and 14 weight classes is a lot. If a small group of kids can achieve glory, it can be inspiring. (See Hoosiers)
mynderse
Sun Feb 22 2015, 02:25PM
Registered Member #8195
Joined: Mon Dec 15 2008, 06:45PM
Posts: 24
mray wrote ...

Ok, I'm sure I won't be popular after this but I'm not interested in popularity. I watched 4 matches last night that made me sick to my stomach for the kids involved. Throughout the weekend I kept observing back points being given after the breakage of a 90 degree angle. News flash!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's 45 degrees!!!!!!!! Or something , at least , close to that. Going back to the finals ,and if you were there you can figure out which 4 bouts I'm talking about, I saw 4 kid and coaches that should feel shortchanged by how the matches were administered. I , as well as many of my colleagues, wonder why there are assistant referees when they either aren't paying attention, are out of position, or certain said officials will not listen to them. It's pointless unless they work together. I realize it is a tough job to officiate; I did it for around 11 years. However, I did have some clue as to the difference between 45 degrees and 90 degrees. I'll bring some protractors next week just in case someone doesn't know the difference and know that the only ones who might be offended are the ones who are probably guilty. I'll be ok because I'm not of the generation of people that gets offended by too much. I'm just tired of watching wrestlers get short changed by the lack of attentive officiating. There were times I felt that "Stevie and Helen" could have made better decisions. Hopefully next weekend will produce the best of the best. I know that part of me says "don't press send" but being who I am I'm going to do it anyway.
Ross and his "Gang" did a great job all weekend. Next year we should be in the Berkshires. See you all next weekend.

I agree
There were many difficult calls in the finals, it would have been wise to consult with the assistant official to make sure the calls were correct.
Great job by Wakefield HS!
LibertyMikeC
Sun Feb 22 2015, 03:45PM
Registered Member #8105
Joined: Sat Nov 22 2008, 02:46PM
Posts: 287
nastyhalf wrote ...

FMS wrote ...

I'm confused. There was a divisional dual meet tourney this year, right? I thought there was, and because we placed top 4 as a team at sectionals, I think we're in "it" next year? Sounds like the MOST perfect way to set this thing up ahead of time for schools to fit it into their schedule, but maybe I'm wrong about the specifics….

Actually there wasn't, the MIAA will not recognize it. What exists is just like any other quad during the season in the eyes of the all powerful MIAA. The coaches who believe it is important to have a Dual Meet Championship put it together.

Again I want to commend all the best tournament teams, they deserve recognition and a title.

I simply believe that the best team of 14 also deserves recognition and a title as state champs. It is like saying the best miler in the state doesn't deserve recognition because he can't win the 100 yard dash. They are both running so only award 1 championship.



While the Team Duel championship (unrecognized by MIAA) and D3 State Team Title (recognized by MIAA) are calculated in different methods, this year the winning team happened to be the same. Somerset-Berkley won in both situations, albeit much closer at the individual tournament, and that says a lot about consistency of the team this year. Great work by the wrestlers and coaches to stay focused all season.

** Also staying healthy adds to it as well, SB's starting lineup stayed the same most of the year, unlike some other teams that had the misfortune of losing wrestlers to some serious injuries.
pb
Sun Feb 22 2015, 04:50PM
Registered Member #9726
Joined: Wed Jan 13 2010, 10:27PM
Posts: 32
To win with 100 points is unusual. It often takes over 130 points. D3 was very balanced this year. There were more good teams scoring sizeable points.
nastyhalf
Mon Feb 23 2015, 07:34AM
Registered Member #138
Joined: Fri Mar 26 2004, 12:59PM
Posts: 214
In D3 it was the case that the same team won both ways, but that was not the case in D2 at all. Both Arlington(dual) and Nashoba(Tourney) deserve the right to claim they are state champs in their respective ways. In D1 it is even more convoluted because Springfield Central did not go to the Dual Tourney. St John's Prep won that and SC won the tourney. If the MIAA sanctioned the Dual Meet Tourneys and awarded titles, I think it is much more likely the best teams would be there.
Bob Tongue
Mon Feb 23 2015, 07:55AM
Registered Member #3633
Joined: Sun Feb 05 2006, 03:19PM
Posts: 92
Website
So, where were all of these voices when the MIAA was talking about dropping the dual meet tournament? Coaches were signing petitions to do away with the dual meet tournament. People were complaining because it was always the same teams in the mix. You can't have it both ways. Coming from Central where we have been successful in both formats, I would have to say that the tournament format is better. It allows you put your team's best up against all the other teams best. It allows the small teams to be in the mix with the largest of teams. The dual meet tournament also took the focus off of the individual tournament and put the teams that were in it at a disadvantage. The teams that competed in the team format were battling their butts off while everyone else was getting ready for individuals. It was very difficult to prepare for both. The present format really is the best way for all concerned. I was one of the most vocal in support of the dual meet format when the MIAA was talking about ending it. Now, After going back to the original format, I would have to say that this is better.
Natickcoach
Mon Feb 23 2015, 08:26AM
Registered Member #2333
Joined: Wed Oct 26 2005, 03:57AM
Posts: 57
Couldn't agree more. We tried 6 variations of the dual format in 7 years. Chasing crowds that are not really there. The sectional tournament is the purest team event. Everyone sends their best 14 and they let the chips fall. No bumping away from your state champ and having a two "barely varsity" guys determine the dual meet.
The coaches association should continue to build the dual meet tournament and for teams that think they have a good shot they should be able to enter. Not keeping team points at the traditional format for seven years didn't make much sense. Not every team is going to win a sectional or state championship , but for many programs finishing 3rd in the sectionals or top ten in the state is a big deal. Not being able to recognize that for those years was a shame.
mray
Mon Feb 23 2015, 08:58AM
Registered Member #278
Joined: Mon Jan 16 2006, 10:06AM
Posts: 1127
Bob Tongue wrote ...

So, where were all of these voices when the MIAA was talking about dropping the dual meet tournament? Coaches were signing petitions to do away with the dual meet tournament. People were complaining because it was always the same teams in the mix. You can't have it both ways. Coming from Central where we have been successful in both formats, I would have to say that the tournament format is better. It allows you put your team's best up against all the other teams best. It allows the small teams to be in the mix with the largest of teams. The dual meet tournament also took the focus off of the individual tournament and put the teams that were in it at a disadvantage. The teams that competed in the team format were battling their butts off while everyone else was getting ready for individuals. It was very difficult to prepare for both. The present format really is the best way for all concerned. I was one of the most vocal in support of the dual meet format when the MIAA was talking about ending it. Now, After going back to the original format, I would have to say that this is better.


Well said. I believe both tournaments have value but the MIAA will not support both. Can't wait to see the best in College in 4 weeks in St. Louis. That is the greatest wrestling tournament I have ever been to.
dbreen
Mon Feb 23 2015, 09:49AM
Registered Member #2315
Joined: Tue Oct 18 2005, 02:23PM
Posts: 724
The MIAA Wrestling Committee voted to continue the Dual tournament. It was sabotaged at the tournament committee level. If done right it would have been a great event. Unfortunayely it was half assed. Typical! My biased opinion is that wrestling should be a team sport that recognizes outstanding individuals. A team is fourteen guys vs. fourteen guys. My norwood teams were second in New England twice, both times we had two guys in the tourny and fortunately had two champs. I don't believe we were the second best team n New England either year. Dedham had a great event, and the rules are the rules. I congratulate them, but I disagree with the format.
coachskp
Mon Feb 23 2015, 11:20AM
Registered Member #847
Joined: Wed Dec 15 2004, 11:37AM
Posts: 894
ScitMSWrestling wrote ...

Carlascooz wrote ...

ScitMSWrestling wrote ...

Just my opinion but I say to finish so high with points earned by only 4 wrestlers is FAR from embarrassing - more reflective of QUALITY over quantity. A high amount of "entered wrestlers" just means you were very successful at Sectionals which doesn't make a team any more or less deserving of recognition at States.


I disagree. This wasn't a knock on Dedham or their wrestlers\coaches. It was a knock on tournament scoring. And I think NotNorwood is right. A team with 4 outstanding individuals is not as impressive (in terms of team strength) as a team with 14 good wrestlers.



Valid point ... kind of makes me wonder why we even bother tracking team points at these tourneys? Isn't the emphasis at this point of the season on the achievements of individuals - especially since MIAA took away the official dual tourneys?


This is not the only sport where that can happen
[link]

coachskp
Mon Feb 23 2015, 11:55AM
Registered Member #847
Joined: Wed Dec 15 2004, 11:37AM
Posts: 894
Does anyone know why Eric Reyes is not in the All-State bracket?
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