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MassWrestling.com :: Forums :: Rule of the Day - Tips and Advice from Real Refs

Benefitting from unsportsmanlike conduct 
nastyhalf
Sun Feb 15 2015, 12:02PM
Registered Member #138
Joined: Fri Mar 26 2004, 12:59PM
Posts: 214
I saw this for the first time in 18 years of coaching. Wrestler A has a tight headlock (very near a pin) Wrestler B begins to gouge at Wrestler A's face. Whistle blows, 4 point nearfall awarded and a restart. Of course (as it would be easier to let go if Wrestler A wins) Wrestler B proceeds later in the bout to pin Wrestler A. To add insult to injury it was in the Sectional Consies and therefore worth a trip to the state tourney.

1. Is this the correct interpretation of the rule?
2. If it is, should I teach unsportmanlike conduct as a method of getting off your back?
bfw68
Sun Feb 15 2015, 02:39PM
Registered Member #4381
Joined: Sun Oct 08 2006, 09:12AM
Posts: 219
Not as described. The correct way to handle it would have been to hold the 1 point penalty until the situation concluded and then award the point on top of near-fall. Many officials would use his own hand to remove the hand to the face and then if it happened again probably slap the mat and call the pin
s.shore
Mon Feb 16 2015, 02:51PM
Registered Member #14212
Joined: Fri Dec 19 2014, 10:44AM
Posts: 54
bfw68 wrote ...

Not as described. The correct way to handle it would have been to hold the 1 point penalty until the situation concluded and then award the point on top of near-fall. Many officials would use his own hand to remove the hand to the face and then if it happened again probably slap the mat and call the pin


I would categorize this more as unnecessary roughness. It is the ref's responsibility to protect the kids, no doubt about it. If the ref blew the whistle to stop the gouging, he needed to make sure the offending wrestler was heavily cautioned with the 1 pt penalty. If there was no caution, then the offending wrestler gets a free pass AND a change of momentum occurs, where wrestler B is left to wonder how to battle dirty tactics. I have seen whole teams (small minority) where it seems they are being coached this way, thank god it's not the norm.

I got video of this happening. No calls made on unnecessary roughness, until the gallery starts yelling at the ref. Man, you can't let the gallery make the call for you.

I have video of a kid winding up for a cross face spinning a kids face 180deg's!.. no call and you can hear the gallery... Another video shows a kid, mouth bleeding from another wind up cross face...no call. I believe I read a discussion where someones arm got graced by a kids teeth and it was the kid receiving the crossface that got DQ'd for biting.

When the gallery can make the call on illegal holds or unnecessary roughness or even out of bounds, the ref needs to sharpen up. When the kids are working on their craft every day and making a great effort, the ref needs to be just as sharp.

From the matches I watched on Saturday only ONE ref was fun to watch, he made the calls and was correct over 90% of the time in my view. In other words, being correct most of the time made the occasional call I may have disagreed with a debatable call that I could live with. The other 3 were a disgrace.
nastyhalf
Tue Feb 17 2015, 09:58AM
Registered Member #138
Joined: Fri Mar 26 2004, 12:59PM
Posts: 214
I am not looking to bash on the refereeing in MA. I am merely trying to understand the logic behind the call that was made. If it is incorrect, I simply want to make other refs aware so that it does not happen again. I am not sure that this ref in particular understood that his decision affected my kid's chances of succeeding so dramatically.
Deck
Tue Feb 17 2015, 10:29AM
Registered Member #12272
Joined: Thu Jun 21 2012, 12:42PM
Posts: 100
Referee should have verbally warned the bottom wrestler without stopping the action. If he persists, then disqualify him.
s.shore
Tue Feb 17 2015, 10:53AM
Registered Member #14212
Joined: Fri Dec 19 2014, 10:44AM
Posts: 54
nastyhalf wrote ...

I am not looking to bash on the refereeing in MA. I am merely trying to understand the logic behind the call that was made. If it is incorrect, I simply want to make other refs aware so that it does not happen again. I am not sure that this ref in particular understood that his decision affected my kid's chances of succeeding so dramatically.


My post was not about bashing, but about getting the call right. Even you say that decision affected your kid!

I'd like to see the level of the referee at a higher level. I posted a paper from Fred Feeney under the interpretation of a new rule thread, an excellent read. I found another paper at the NFHS that is similar, it goes as far as telling other ref's not to be the last one to make the call (in other words, the gallery beats you to the call).

I think that most people are making excuses for the ref. Why? are they infallible? I 'm not saying a ref has to be perfect, but a high degree of correct calls would be welcome. Like I said before, only 1 of the 4 ref's I saw this weekend was a JOY to watch and he wasn't perfect. But he was right at least 90% of the time and it made it very difficult to fault him...he was doing his job.

Sorry if it sounded like bashing.

http://www.nfhs.org/articles/bottom-man-stalling/
FlipU4Real
Tue Feb 17 2015, 10:59AM
Joined: Mon Sep 13 2004, 09:33PM
Posts: 569
OK, here's what should have happened.

First off... IF the match is stopped for the hands to the face, and this occurs after 3 nearfall has been earned, then the ref should award 4 nearfall ponts (3 nearfall plus 1 for stoppage), AND 1 illegal hold penalty, for a total of 5 points.

But, as indicated above, in a nearfall situation where the call is against the defensive wrestler, the referee may/should prevent the illegal action w/out stopping wrestling, either verbally or if necessary physically.
If the referee swats the defensive wrestler's hand away from the face, and he goes back and does it again, this could be considered a second act of illegal hold or unsportsmanlike conduct, which MIGHT, either push the penalty sequence to that of disqualification, OR could be construed by the referee as Flagrant Misconduct, which would also result in disqualification.

I do have to admit, without the rulebook in front of me, I can't recall whether the referee pushing the hand away is allowable per the NFHS rulebook, or is just a commonly accepted practice.
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