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MassWrestling.com :: Forums :: Results

2014-15 New Englands Results  Go to page  1 [2] 3
Thedavepete
Sun Mar 08 2015, 03:24PM
Registered Member #14422
Joined: Tue Feb 24 2015, 08:36PM
Posts: 56
snowstorm wrote ...

@thedaveā€¦. i don't think so. Ian's been scored on only 3 times in past two years. last year NE finals (6-5), this year All States final (6-4) and this year NE semis (5-2). incredible run of 119 wins in a row and only gave up 11 points in 2 years

be interesting to know Viruet's and Hoehn's stats

I was there and saw it happen. Butterbrodt had legs in and gave up a somewhat sloppy reversal. It didnt take him much time to reverse andre carr, but never the less it happened. There was a video of it but i no longer have it. But I will try to find another way to confirm it.
Patsfan
Sun Mar 08 2015, 04:17PM
Registered Member #4545
Joined: Sun Nov 26 2006, 06:45PM
Posts: 592
Be more interesting to look at the career accomplishments of the kids Fritz wrestled vs the kids Ian wrestled. I'd go with Fritz.
LibertyMikeC
Sun Mar 08 2015, 04:37PM
Registered Member #8105
Joined: Sat Nov 22 2008, 02:46PM
Posts: 290
snowstorm wrote ...

@thedaveā€¦. i don't think so. Ian's been scored on only 3 times in past two years. last year NE finals (6-5), this year All States final (6-4) and this year NE semis (5-2). incredible run of 119 wins in a row and only gave up 11 points in 2 years

be interesting to know Viruet's and Hoehn's stats


I think it would be tough to compare stats based on scores unless saw all of Hoehn's matches... If you just go by scores, yes, he "given up" more than 11 points, but how many of those points were earned by the other wrestler, as opposed to Hoehn immediately cutting them lose so he can could take them back down and get a quick tech fall...
w1nbyp1n
Sun Mar 08 2015, 05:07PM
Registered Member #11536
Joined: Thu Jan 26 2012, 10:38AM
Posts: 280
Comparing Hoehn to Butterbrodt is hilarious . The level of competition is night and day
bfw68
Sun Mar 08 2015, 08:17PM
Registered Member #4381
Joined: Sun Oct 08 2006, 09:12AM
Posts: 219
By no means is this meant to disrespect Butterbrodt but at 220 there is little to no real ability outside of Ian himself. Virulent and Hoehn are ridiculously athletic. Fritz brings a pace that no other kid can match for a full bout. For this wrestling season, Hoehn is the top guy. No doubt about it. None
Jailguard23
Mon Mar 09 2015, 02:09AM
Registered Member #13261
Joined: Wed Mar 06 2013, 02:20AM
Posts: 2
jmachinder wrote ...

I believe Fritz and his father become the third father-son duo to win New Englands. I'm pretty sure no one touched Von Hoehn in 1986 when he won NEs for the second time.

snowstorm
Mon Mar 09 2015, 04:44AM
Registered Member #11819
Joined: Mon Feb 20 2012, 05:24PM
Posts: 24
maybe you're right about the competition here in MA at 220 vs the 170 group, a guy can only wrestle who steps on the mat. so, take it to another level - Ian a Super 32 finalist. Viruet a Super 32 champ. I don't know what Hoehn has done on a national level.
gnussbaum
Mon Mar 09 2015, 07:45AM
Registered Member #824
Joined: Mon Dec 13 2004, 07:36PM
Posts: 615
jmachinder wrote ...

I believe Fritz and his father become the third father-son duo to win New Englands. I'm pretty sure no one touched Von Hoehn in 1986 when he won NEs for the second time.


who were the other two?
Hurricane
Mon Mar 09 2015, 08:06AM
Registered Member #10057
Joined: Thu Feb 18 2010, 10:41AM
Posts: 60
snowstorm wrote ...

maybe you're right about the competition here in MA at 220 vs the 170 group, a guy can only wrestle who steps on the mat. so, take it to another level - Ian a Super 32 finalist. Viruet a Super 32 champ. I don't know what Hoehn has done on a national level.

Viruet was not a Super 32 champ he won junior nationals which is completely different and Fritz was 7th at Super 32 last fall
Shvarts
Mon Mar 09 2015, 08:18AM

Joined: Wed Mar 24 2004, 10:28PM
Posts: 237
gnussbaum wrote ...

jmachinder wrote ...

I believe Fritz and his father become the third father-son duo to win New Englands. I'm pretty sure no one touched Von Hoehn in 1986 when he won NEs for the second time.


who were the other two?


Joel (Pentucket I believe) and Zack Thone (Spaulding NH, 03)
Gordie (Framingham) and Mike Wrin (Algonquin, 09)
montytech160
Mon Mar 09 2015, 09:16AM
Registered Member #13806
Joined: Thu Jan 23 2014, 08:44AM
Posts: 335
Hurricane wrote ...

snowstorm wrote ...

maybe you're right about the competition here in MA at 220 vs the 170 group, a guy can only wrestle who steps on the mat. so, take it to another level - Ian a Super 32 finalist. Viruet a Super 32 champ. I don't know what Hoehn has done on a national level.

Viruet was not a Super 32 champ he won junior nationals which is completely different and Fritz was 7th at Super 32 last fall

Yeah super 32s is a completely different higher level of NHSCA's. Homework.
MatBurn
Mon Mar 09 2015, 11:19AM
Registered Member #3953
Joined: Sun Feb 19 2006, 08:01PM
Posts: 295
It's hard to compare the Super 32 finishes of Butterbrodt and Fritz. The 170lb bracket had 71 wrestlers and is a very deep weight. The heavyweight bracket that Ian took 2nd in only had 28 wrestlers, and at 220/285lb you lose a lot of the top talent at the big national tournaments because so many of the big hitters at those weights are playing football. Many of the top 20 recruits at these weights never even end up seeing a college wrestling mat for the same reason. All in all, I'd say Fritz's Super 32 finish is more impressive.
Jim Maher
Mon Mar 09 2015, 11:41AM

Joined: Mon Mar 29 2004, 08:09PM
Posts: 4726
Who cares about who is better, Hoehn or Butterbrodt, just think these great wrestlers came out of the same youth program in N Andover, but just took different routes to their NE titles.
coachskp
Mon Mar 09 2015, 12:23PM
Registered Member #847
Joined: Wed Dec 15 2004, 11:37AM
Posts: 910
For your viewing pleasure
New England Team scores by State place entry
dominant performance by CT this year particularly in the lower weights
every CT1 placed with 7 in the finals and 12 in the top 3
more Finalists and place-winners despite fewer overall entrants than MA
Also over 50% of CT entries placed (51.8%)
MA was second in terms of % of entrants that place at 33%
Place Team Points
1 CT1 285
2 MA1 262.5
3 NH1 157.5
4 VT1 154.5
5 CT2 141
6 MA2 135
7 MA3 126
8 CT3 119.5
9 RI1 107
10 NH2 93
11 ME1 89.5
12 MA4 77.5
13 CT4 76
14 ME2 54.5
15 NH3 50
16 MA5 46
17 RI2 42
18 MA6 40
19 RI3 24
20 ME3 22
21 VT2 20
22 VT3 6
WarrenMcQ
Mon Mar 09 2015, 12:29PM
Registered Member #572
Joined: Tue Sep 14 2004, 11:57AM
Posts: 398
WOW I just noticed MASS D3 had 6 NE place winners, very impressive.
coachskp
Mon Mar 09 2015, 12:38PM
Registered Member #847
Joined: Wed Dec 15 2004, 11:37AM
Posts: 910
Placers by State "team'
CT with the most overall placers -
CT - 29
MA - 28
NH - 11
VT - 6
ME and RI - 5

Place Team 1 2 3 4 5 6
1 CT1 3 4 5 1 0 1
2 MA1 5 3 1 0 0 3
3 NH1 2 1 1 1 1 0
4 VT1 3 1 0 1 0 1
5 CT2 0 1 1 1 3 2
6 MA2 0 1 1 0 2 2
7 MA3 0 0 2 2 1 2
8 CT3 0 1 0 1 2 1
9 RI1 1 0 1 2 0 0
10 NH2 0 0 0 3 1 0
11 ME1 0 1 2 0 1 0
12 MA4 0 0 0 0 2 0
13 CT4 0 1 0 0 0 1
14 ME2 0 0 0 1 0 0
15 NH3 0 0 0 1 0 0
16 MA5 0 0 0 0 0 1
17 RI2 0 0 0 0 1 0
18 MA6 0 0 0 0 0 0
19 RI3 0 0 0 0 0 0
20 ME3 0 0 0 0 0 0
21 VT2 0 0 0 0 0 0
22 VT3 0 0 0 0 0 0
mrvinny
Mon Mar 09 2015, 01:38PM
Registered Member #1814
Joined: Wed Mar 02 2005, 12:17PM
Posts: 269
This is great info- thanks Coach
I was surprised MA 5's and 6's didn't do a little better

I think there needs to be serious thought to eliminating the VT 3. They are not remotely competitive. I would consider replacing with the CT5 ( my first choice) or the MA7
dnowa
Mon Mar 09 2015, 02:05PM
Registered Member #4263
Joined: Tue Aug 22 2006, 09:45AM
Posts: 119
please stop the talk now of REDUCING any state from 3 to 2, as too often, 3 can beat 2 but bracket fell otherwise. the stats do show support for expansion to a full 24 man bracket (would eliminate all first round byes and add 56 bouts) by adding CT5 and MA7, putting emphasis on winning last match at states to earn advance
Jim Maher
Mon Mar 09 2015, 02:09PM

Joined: Mon Mar 29 2004, 08:09PM
Posts: 4726
standinggranby wrote ...

WOW I just noticed MASS D3 had 6 NE place winners, very impressive.



I show 8 Mass Div 3 wrestlers placed.
Morris
Thompson
Zaw
Wesolowski
Behen
Boyle
Froio
Wensley

Medic5392
Mon Mar 09 2015, 02:23PM
Registered Member #6539
Joined: Tue Dec 11 2007, 04:11PM
Posts: 847
dnowa wrote ...

please stop the talk now of REDUCING any state from 3 to 2, as too often, 3 can beat 2 but bracket fell otherwise. the stats do show support for expansion to a full 24 man bracket (would eliminate all first round byes and add 56 bouts) by adding CT5 and MA7, putting emphasis on winning last match at states to earn advance


Ditto, no one gets helped by taking away an opportunity for a kid. VT3 is not competitive, but why take it away when you can add 2 or 4 kids from the more competitive states? A CT 5 & 6 and MA 7 & 8 would balance out the brackets to make them even, or just the CT5 & MA7, but either way I would not cut slots.
Hill Billy
Mon Mar 09 2015, 02:36PM

Joined: Sun Dec 26 2004, 07:51AM
Posts: 839
I was just talking to one of my moles...apparently some old timers haven't been able to log onto the site...they must be blocked as anti-socials...or they forgot to plug in their computers...one or the other...Joel Thorne never won NEs...it was his brother Mark...Joel was runner-up in '72...also, I'm terribly biased, but Fritz Hoehn is the best wrestler in New England, hands down, and I believe he will continue to prove that point at Edinboro...as you were, gentlemen...
DOWDIESEL
Mon Mar 09 2015, 03:09PM
Registered Member #12818
Joined: Sun Dec 23 2012, 02:02PM
Posts: 23
Yes Fritz was the most impressive wrestler in New England THIS SEASON,but career wise it's between Viruet and Butterbrodt, Butterbrodt has stats but Viruet has a lot of big names he has beaten over his career! !
mrvinny
Mon Mar 09 2015, 03:22PM
Registered Member #1814
Joined: Wed Mar 02 2005, 12:17PM
Posts: 269
I like the idea of 24 man bracket and could live with keeping the Vt 3
But sorry I don't by the argument that reducing the number denies the Vt 3 an opportunity. In my way of thinking , opportunities are earned not given . I could make the case that a Ct 5 or Ma 7 has gone through a much more difficult path than a Vt 3 and in fact has earned that opportunity.
Medic5392
Mon Mar 09 2015, 03:32PM
Registered Member #6539
Joined: Tue Dec 11 2007, 04:11PM
Posts: 847
mrvinny wrote ...

I like the idea of 24 man bracket and could live with keeping the Vt 3
But sorry I don't by the argument that reducing the number denies the Vt 3 an opportunity. In my way of thinking , opportunities are earned not given . I could make the case that a Ct 5 or Ma 7 has gone through a much more difficult path than a Vt 3 and in fact has earned that opportunity.


There is no need for a case to be made, I think you are 100% right that the CT5 or MA7 goes through a much tougher process, but I just don't see the need to take away a spot. The 3rd placer might just as well be a finalist on any other day, so if there was VT4 or something then I can see an argument to re-distribute a spot, but not for a VT3. I know they hardly ever do anything, but I would prefer to see the focus on adding kids from CT and MA than taking anything away from anyone else. There is no downside to adding kids in my view, but getting the Council to agree to it.....
dnowa
Mon Mar 09 2015, 04:52PM
Registered Member #4263
Joined: Tue Aug 22 2006, 09:45AM
Posts: 119
coachskp--appreciate all the hard work with the breakdown of state placewinners. any chance you could do a final "state" summary by taking the highest point scorer or placewinner from each state at each weight? in most cases, it is the 1st from that state, but variances include CT4 and MA3 at 113, NH2 at 132/138, CT3 at 145. Will email Kap and see if pts earned can be an easily added category.
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