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Criteria #2 
sjp
Sun Jan 25 2015, 12:02PM
Registered Member #1421
Joined: Tue Feb 08 2005, 12:57PM
Posts: 636
Criteria #2 will stay same as last season.
Coaches will need to fill in the right side column on MIAA paperwork that states the opponents post season paperwork from last season.

Criteria #2 is superior record against acknowledged strong opposition (IE post season paperwork)

MIAA wrestling committee met on Friday & decided to hold off until 2016 post season to implement the point system criteria to criteria #2. This will allow all coaches to learn the system & have questions answered.
mray
Sun Jan 25 2015, 01:32PM
Registered Member #278
Joined: Mon Jan 16 2006, 10:06AM
Posts: 1122
Great move. It should be on the MIAA site so that there is a link. It should be user friendly , also. There is already a lot expected of coaches and we just keep piling on. Sports should be simple; not as if the Secret Service needs to get involved.
DMurph191
Sun Jan 25 2015, 08:33PM
Registered Member #4649
Joined: Sun Dec 10 2006, 08:10PM
Posts: 17
I am interested in the definition of strong opposition, as none has been provided
sjp
Sun Jan 25 2015, 09:29PM
Registered Member #1421
Joined: Tue Feb 08 2005, 12:57PM
Posts: 636
Per the current definition it is wrestlers w post season paperwork.

Thus the reason we created the point system for criteria. To clear up & provide a better way to seed.
unfortunately has to wait another season.
coachramos
Mon Jan 26 2015, 06:47AM
Registered Member #11473
Joined: Mon Dec 19 2011, 10:29AM
Posts: 28
sjp wrote ...

Per the current definition it is wrestlers w post season paperwork.

Thus the reason we created the point system for criteria. To clear up & provide a better way to seed.
unfortunately has to wait another season.


Can you please explain the point system for criteria or tell us where we can find an explanation?
sjp
Mon Jan 26 2015, 08:02AM
Registered Member #1421
Joined: Tue Feb 08 2005, 12:57PM
Posts: 636
Coachraoms the point system gives a total for wins & losses.
If you defeat a wrestler with post season paperwork it is worth more points.
Then losses have a point value. You will then have a point total for each wrestler that would be used for criteria #2. (All matches wrestled will have a positive or negative value, then total will be used)

All coaches will be given a copy of the system prior to next season, so they can review & be prepared.
Deck
Mon Jan 26 2015, 08:30AM
Registered Member #12272
Joined: Thu Jun 21 2012, 12:42PM
Posts: 99
How will the points work for winning / losing at higher weight classes?
Shvarts
Mon Jan 26 2015, 08:35AM

Joined: Wed Mar 24 2004, 10:28PM
Posts: 219
Deck wrote ...

How will the points work for winning / losing at higher weight classes?


The same, weight class doesn't matter.
OACoach
Mon Jan 26 2015, 11:06AM
Registered Member #6261
Joined: Sun Aug 26 2007, 11:58AM
Posts: 335
The point system makes it so any time you wrestle good wrestlers(paperwork) it helps you wrestler. Losing to a good wrestler is better than losing to a bad wrestler with the point system. It might even help competition a year or two after it is implemented.
Deck
Mon Jan 26 2015, 11:19AM
Registered Member #12272
Joined: Thu Jun 21 2012, 12:42PM
Posts: 99
In favor of a point system (better than the BCS) but weight class W/Ls should matter when wrestling up.
nawrestler
Mon Jan 26 2015, 11:54AM
Registered Member #4570
Joined: Thu Nov 30 2006, 06:08PM
Posts: 79
RI uses a system like this...a reoccurring problem they have is the injury of a returning state place finisher. For example, State champ from last year is injured and does not wrestle for a majority of the season. Time for the state tourney and he has almost no points...where does he get seeded? I think there has to be some thought about situations like that. It won't happen often but I'm sure things like this will pop up from time to time...
AHS611
Mon Jan 26 2015, 11:56AM
Registered Member #7279
Joined: Sun Feb 10 2008, 06:15PM
Posts: 327
I think another point that was brought up to me this year was a wrestler's paper shouldn't be held against him in the point system.

Example: Wrestler A won sectionals and Wrestler B didn't place the previous year. They've split against each other during the year and are even everywhere else. B would go ahead of A because he got points from the match he won against A, whereas A got nothing for beating B. Doesn't seem totally fair.
Fran Weir
Mon Jan 26 2015, 01:06PM
Registered Member #6215
Joined: Sun Jul 15 2007, 08:14PM
Posts: 81
Maybe the wrestlers returning with paperwork should start out the season with the points that opponents would earn for beating them. For example, a returning New England finalist would start the season at 34 points. That way they get some credit for what they accomplished before others can benefit from their accomplishments.
mray
Mon Jan 26 2015, 01:16PM
Registered Member #278
Joined: Mon Jan 16 2006, 10:06AM
Posts: 1122
This only is needed after head to head. That means that we are probably talking about maybe 10 % of seeding situations. Most likely less.

GrayDawg
Mon Jan 26 2015, 02:52PM
Registered Member #4288
Joined: Thu Sep 07 2006, 09:05PM
Posts: 513
AHS611 wrote ...

I think another point that was brought up to me this year was a wrestler's paper shouldn't be held against him in the point system.

Example: Wrestler A won sectionals and Wrestler B didn't place the previous year. They've split against each other during the year and are even everywhere else. B would go ahead of A because he got points from the match he won against A, whereas A got nothing for beating B. Doesn't seem totally fair.


Bingo !! In the scenario described above, with *everything* else being equal, Wrestler A gets the screw-gee.
nawrestler
Mon Jan 26 2015, 08:12PM
Registered Member #4570
Joined: Thu Nov 30 2006, 06:08PM
Posts: 79
In some sections you get that round robin scenario. A beats B, B beats C and C beats A. Head to head doesn't always solve the problem. Strong opposition is supposed to be used. Usually state paper is used instead. I think a point system is going to be difficult to keep track of. You're going to need a database that coaches can input their results. As everyone knows wrestling coaches are often not great at this.
coachramos
Mon Jan 26 2015, 09:00PM
Registered Member #11473
Joined: Mon Dec 19 2011, 10:29AM
Posts: 28
How do they seed in NY, PA, and NJ? I'm sure we could borrow from other states to make a system work in Mass. I agree that this may be a minor issue but it came up last year in D1 wmass seeding. These suggestions seem to be very good and we should further discuss before we move forward.
sjp
Mon Jan 26 2015, 09:09PM
Registered Member #1421
Joined: Tue Feb 08 2005, 12:57PM
Posts: 636
Coach Strum came up w this system.
He spoke w several states & used their ideas to adopt this system.
The states he spoke to are listed on the paperwork that was handed out @the state coaches meeting.

It does not take long to do the research. I did half a season in under an hour. Its all online. All previous season post season brackets are listed.
jackburton
Mon Jan 26 2015, 11:27PM
Registered Member #273
Joined: Sun Apr 04 2004, 04:44PM
Posts: 102
Seeding doesn't matter. The best emerge no matter where they are seeded. the current criteria is fine, returning weight should be deciding factor. Let's not complicate a ham sandwich. Not everyone deserves to be a champion. Everyone in the bracket has a chance.
pzacchilli
Tue Jan 27 2015, 09:00AM
Registered Member #13031
Joined: Thu Jan 31 2013, 10:06AM
Posts: 95
It's interesting we spend time on this subject of seeding which works itself out once the wrestling starts. Meanwhile, we are losing wrestlers everyday (kids who are on the mat as well as kids that don't come out for the team) to skin lesion issues that could be limited with enforced preventative measures. Coaches and officials need to be held accountable. Seems like we could redirect our attention to address this more pressing matter.
bfw68
Tue Jan 27 2015, 10:17AM
Registered Member #4381
Joined: Sun Oct 08 2006, 09:12AM
Posts: 215
Skin issues is a whole new ballgame. One idea that's been talked about is having the MIAA put some dermatologists on retainer. Maybe they would be available on Tues and Thur evenings to check skin problems. Then when referees are checking skin notes they would come from a core of MIAA approved doctors. Referees are not health care professionals nor are coaches. This is a serious issue.
Jim Maher
Tue Jan 27 2015, 10:26AM

Joined: Mon Mar 29 2004, 08:09PM
Posts: 4661
We had a dermatologists at sectionals one year and they missed a kid with a major skin issue on his forehead. Just having a DR onsite won't solve that problem.
LConsolini
Tue Jan 27 2015, 10:50AM
Registered Member #107
Joined: Thu Mar 25 2004, 07:32PM
Posts: 58
Coaches need to check thier kids the day before the sectional start. If they see something, it needs to to be checked beofre they go to the scale. That would help alot. Officals are not experts but they do a pretty good job.
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