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Pin Down Bullying 2015 
pzacchilli
Fri Jan 23 2015, 09:55AM
Registered Member #13031
Joined: Thu Jan 31 2013, 10:06AM
Posts: 105
Harvard Head Coach, Jay Weiss, along with the Harvard wrestling staff created the 'Pin Down Bullying' initiative back in 2012 to help educate and empower wrestlers of all ages to stand up against bullying.

Last year, Ashland/Keefe Tech and the Norton Lancers came together in support of this initiative and to help spread the message that YOU can make a difference.
link to last year's forum: [link]

This season the Tri Valley League has come together, taking it a step further in spreading the word that wrestling and our student-athletes can and should be a driving force of change. On Wednesday, January 28th the Tri Valley League Pins Down Bullying. Here is a message from our student-athletes:

LINK: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UME-crmaE8s&feature=youtu.be
pzacchilli
Tue Jan 27 2015, 04:24PM
Registered Member #13031
Joined: Thu Jan 31 2013, 10:06AM
Posts: 105
Update:

The Ashland/Keefe v Hopkinton "Pin Down Bullying" Match has been postponed to Thursday, 7pm at Ashland Middle School. I do not have postponement dates for Bellingham/Norton or AMSA/Holliston at this time.
Medic5392
Tue Jan 27 2015, 05:21PM
Registered Member #6539
Joined: Tue Dec 11 2007, 04:11PM
Posts: 846
I continue to hope that this "Charitable event" will either change it's name or go down in flames. If you want to do something constructive, "Pin Down Cancer", all you are doing is adding to another false sense of fear, undercutting kids ability to cope in the real world and perpetuating a false "epidemic". It would seem that every child now is a sensitive blossom that cannot stand the vile wind of mean words from others mouths and must be sheltered from all stresses in life! Gasp! And if they are not, then the schools are liable for it. How about parents do their jobs and how about we let teachers and coaches do their jobs? You know, like teach and coach?

Coaches who continue to support this kind of thinking are not helping themselves, their kids or setting anyone up for success. Pin Down Cancer, Illiteracy, Hunger or really go out on limb and "Pin Down Freedom of Speech", heck there are so many real issues that are a problem the choices seem endless....but this is just junk and a terrible example of the type of feel good, short term thinking that happens without any consideration for the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th order effects

I have posted prior on this topic, but these links should help illustrate the kind of idiocy that continues with the panic at everything in a kids life that could go wrong. I think it is appropriate to show the problems with this kind of PC idiocy, so hope the links still work. The "bullying" codes, the speech issues that go with it and the current national idiocy going on about PC and not wanting to be "offended" all the time are related. I continue to hope that this PC idiocy fails, that people who should know better will stop enabling it to occur, but when I see things like "Pin Down Bullying" I weep for our future. Did I mention the "idiocy" of these these type of things? At least watch these videos, read the other information and think about the big picture, no matter how good this "idea" makes you feel, use your head and think in the long term.

[link]

[link]

and

[link]

[link]

[link]

[link]


Truly, my hat is off to most teachers (not the one with the "Pin Down Bullying" campaign) and coaches who continue on, but this is one more example of where the type of idiocy that promotes speech codes, criminal bullying laws, and "Pin Down Bullying" silliness comes from. Hope this gets struck down by the courts, but that takes a long time. I am amazed every time someone good continues to go into the career of teaching and coaching, grateful, but amazed.
pzacchilli
Wed Jan 28 2015, 08:11AM
Registered Member #13031
Joined: Thu Jan 31 2013, 10:06AM
Posts: 105
I guess this will upset you then...we are looking to expand this initiative again this year. I am looking forward to having discussions with coaches in the Hock, the DCL, and the Bay State League this offseason.

When the bullying discussion was at its height a few years back I will admit I had your attitude. The thing we were not grasping is that we grew up in a different time. This generation is not prepared with the skills and mentality to deal with these situations. Also, with technology and social media there are more avenues for aggressors that are easily accessible with no consequences. As an educactor and a coach I can tell you that this is simply the truth. I am not talking about wrestlers, hopefully through wrestling they develop those skills, perseverance, confidence, and leadership being the keys in this case. That is what this whole thing is about, getting our wrestlers, of all ages, who are prepared to stand up.

Last year it was reported that, 70 percent of teens have seen bullying occurring in their schools – and approximately 30 percent of young people admit to bullying themselves. With so many students seeing what goes on, one has to wonder why bullying proliferates – especially since bullying stops within 10 seconds 57 percent of the time when someone intervenes. A simple message, such as ‘Bullying is not tolerated,’ is not likely to be very effective. Effective anti-bullying programs need to focus on the bystanders, who can step in and stop the behavior and that's what this initiative is about.
Back_Points
Wed Jan 28 2015, 01:14PM
Registered Member #11199
Joined: Wed Mar 02 2011, 08:57AM
Posts: 29
Bullies come from all types of households. One parent and two parent homes, wealthy homes and poorer homes. Bullying was happening when I was a kid (that was in the 60's and 70's), so 50+ years and bullying is still alive and kicking (pun intended). You see, bullying is not restricted to name calling alone. Bullying involves pushing, punching, kicking, stealing of lunch money, clothing, etc.
Lets leave the definition to name calling as you seem to think it is. The continuous name calling day after day after day after day leaves kids feeling terrorized, they don't want to go to school or even leave their homes.
I was bullied as a kid, called names, punched and kicked. I kept going to school each day, I put all my home work assignments in my lunch box or bag so I could run from school as quickly as possible. I took the back roads home so as to avoid the bully daily. I didn't wilt and become a "sensitive blossom" as you say. But not everyone manages as I did or was tough as nails as you were. Everyone handles things differently. We are not all like you. You are a self-inflated, opinionated, aggressive, Neanderthal who is not intelligent enough to know that bullying is a real epidemic. As I reread this post I realized I might get deleted for calling you names but then I remembered you can handle it, you're no sensitive blossom.
Catfish
Wed Jan 28 2015, 01:49PM
Registered Member #11436
Joined: Mon Nov 14 2011, 07:52AM
Posts: 109
I won't knock the initiative but I will say that the crisis for male education (all races) is far more predominant than bullying. It is not PC (for some) to actually acknowledge that males and females are different. The advances of woman are tremendous - but to many boys are being left behind by attention to political correctness and correcting past wrongs. I don't knock the bullying initiave or the intent of those involved - but bullying campaigns do take resources from addressing the male education crisis.
deepbrook
Wed Jan 28 2015, 02:18PM
Registered Member #11658
Joined: Fri Feb 10 2012, 04:45PM
Posts: 59
@pzacchilli and @Back_Points, this sounds like an excellent initiative. I wasn't bullied too badly in school, but nor was I the big man on campus. Worse, there were times when I bullied someone else. I'm embarrassed by it now, but can only say that I did so much more out of ignorance and insecurity than any sort of real mean streak. With the right education at the time, I'm confident that I would have acquitted myself much better.

@Medic5392, thanks much for your post. Your frequent tossing around of "idiotic" pretty much proves the point that the Pin Down Bullying initiative is trying to address. Keep it up, you'll certainly help push it forward, not have it fall off the map (or mat).

@Catfish, I'd love to hear more about what you mean by "male education crisis." While not a trained educator myself, I work in the field on the publishing side and have served on my local school board. As a result, I know a fair bit about education, but have yet to come across this particular educational need. There's lots of evidence that suggests that girls/women aren't given the same attention as boys/men when it comes to learning. This is particular true in the STEM subjects (science, technology, engineering, and math). I've spent my education career focusing on products and services that help educators teach struggling learners. And those struggles present themselves in many different forms, ranging from social to academic and reading to math. I haven't come across gender-based differences other than the ones I've mentioned above, however. Any elaboration that you can provide would be appreciated.
Medic5392
Wed Jan 28 2015, 03:22PM
Registered Member #6539
Joined: Tue Dec 11 2007, 04:11PM
Posts: 846
deepbrook wrote ...

@pzacchilli and @Back_Points, this sounds like an excellent initiative. I wasn't bullied too badly in school, but nor was I the big man on campus. Worse, there were times when I bullied someone else. I'm embarrassed by it now, but can only say that I did so much more out of ignorance and insecurity than any sort of real mean streak. With the right education at the time, I'm confident that I would have acquitted myself much better.

@Medic5392, thanks much for your post. Your frequent tossing around of "idiotic" pretty much proves the point that the Pin Down Bullying initiative is trying to address. Keep it up, you'll certainly help push it forward, not have it fall off the map (or mat).

@Catfish, I'd love to hear more about what you mean by "male education crisis." While not a trained educator myself, I work in the field on the publishing side and have served on my local school board. As a result, I know a fair bit about education, but have yet to come across this particular educational need. There's lots of evidence that suggests that girls/women aren't given the same attention as boys/men when it comes to learning. This is particular true in the STEM subjects (science, technology, engineering, and math). I've spent my education career focusing on products and services that help educators teach struggling learners. And those struggles present themselves in many different forms, ranging from social to academic and reading to math. I haven't come across gender-based differences other than the ones I've mentioned above, however. Any elaboration that you can provide would be appreciated.



Deepbrook,
Did you actually read anything in the links provided or watch the videos? I somehow doubt you did, I would almost bet money you didn't. And your inability to understand the big picture is even more evident when you imply that by saying this initiative is idiotic. Do you now need counseling? Have you been bullied? Because if that is your idea of bullying you only continue to prove my point. So, please, continue with your hypersensitivity.

I also promise that the opposite is true in terms of this statement "There's lots of evidence that suggests that girls/women aren't given the same attention as boys/men when it comes to learning."- This isn't the place for us to go down the rabbit hole on that topic, but I would have provided links to bolster my point at least and if this was another blog I would, but let's stay on the topic at hand. Bullying and Wrestling and the obvious issues that go with it that are bigger than how it makes you feel or that you somehow "did something for the children".

Medic5392
Wed Jan 28 2015, 03:29PM
Registered Member #6539
Joined: Tue Dec 11 2007, 04:11PM
Posts: 846
pzacchilli wrote ...

I guess this will upset you then...we are looking to expand this initiative again this year. I am looking forward to having discussions with coaches in the Hock, the DCL, and the Bay State League this offseason.

When the bullying discussion was at its height a few years back I will admit I had your attitude. The thing we were not grasping is that we grew up in a different time. This generation is not prepared with the skills and mentality to deal with these situations. Also, with technology and social media there are more avenues for aggressors that are easily accessible with no consequences. As an educactor and a coach I can tell you that this is simply the truth. I am not talking about wrestlers, hopefully through wrestling they develop those skills, perseverance, confidence, and leadership being the keys in this case. That is what this whole thing is about, getting our wrestlers, of all ages, who are prepared to stand up.

Last year it was reported that, 70 percent of teens have seen bullying occurring in their schools – and approximately 30 percent of young people admit to bullying themselves. With so many students seeing what goes on, one has to wonder why bullying proliferates – especially since bullying stops within 10 seconds 57 percent of the time when someone intervenes. A simple message, such as ‘Bullying is not tolerated,’ is not likely to be very effective. Effective anti-bullying programs need to focus on the bystanders, who can step in and stop the behavior and that's what this initiative is about.



Funny things about stats, did you see what the definition of bullying was? The term is so overly broad that it includes just about anything and if you had actually watched the linked videos and read the linked items by the Dept of Education among others you would understand that. Pin Down Cancer, Pin Down anything, but stop pinning down a false "epidemic" that mostly made up so that no one is offended, ever. Real bullying will always be here and what you are addressing is mostly a hysteria that is simply not real. When you embrace the idea that ANY word that is offensive or teasing even amongst friends is bullying you are bordering on what used to be called totalitarianism, but now I guess is simply called PC. Read the links, watch the videos, if you do not, then you are simply again proving my point about things. You are also setting up parents to scream that everything is bullying, to include a coach being considered "too hard" on his kids or not being supportive enough or what have you. That you continue to fail to see the long term effects and the ripples that this "initiative" has is a bit puzzling to me. Have you ever heard of the org psych theory of "Sunk Costs"? It is used mostly in business, but I see it all manner in any organization. Basically, someone gets married to an idea and no matter what new information or critiques of their idea, program, product, procurement, etc...that should cause them to either stop or adjust their idea, program, product, procurement, etc...they do not do anything and refuse to see anything outside that "idea". They then continue to throw good money after bad. We have all experienced this in one way or another at our places of work. And I am sure we have all fallen prey to this type of phenomena at one time or the other since we are all human and been the person who would not see any new information or what have you that might change our minds, but we should try to learn from those experiences and look at the big picture at times when you are in a position of leadership.

In short, I strongly disagree with your initiative and think in the long term you will do more harm than good by being overprotective of kids, stifling any kind of resiliency, stifling the ability of kids to both counter actual bullying through verbal or physical confrontation and enabling an ever expanding definition of bullying that becomes so broad that is encompasses anything that anyone finds offensive.
Medic5392
Wed Jan 28 2015, 03:32PM
Registered Member #6539
Joined: Tue Dec 11 2007, 04:11PM
Posts: 846
Catfish wrote ...

I won't knock the initiative but I will say that the crisis for male education (all races) is far more predominant than bullying. It is not PC (for some) to actually acknowledge that males and females are different. The advances of woman are tremendous - but to many boys are being left behind by attention to political correctness and correcting past wrongs. I don't knock the bullying initiave or the intent of those involved - but bullying campaigns do take resources from addressing the male education crisis.


I agree with almost all of your statement, but this is a simple fix, makes folks feel good about themselves and actually hurts more than it helps.
Medic5392
Wed Jan 28 2015, 03:39PM
Registered Member #6539
Joined: Tue Dec 11 2007, 04:11PM
Posts: 846
Back_Points wrote ...

Bullies come from all types of households. One parent and two parent homes, wealthy homes and poorer homes. Bullying was happening when I was a kid (that was in the 60's and 70's), so 50+ years and bullying is still alive and kicking (pun intended). You see, bullying is not restricted to name calling alone. Bullying involves pushing, punching, kicking, stealing of lunch money, clothing, etc.
Lets leave the definition to name calling as you seem to think it is. The continuous name calling day after day after day after day leaves kids feeling terrorized, they don't want to go to school or even leave their homes.
I was bullied as a kid, called names, punched and kicked. I kept going to school each day, I put all my home work assignments in my lunch box or bag so I could run from school as quickly as possible. I took the back roads home so as to avoid the bully daily. I didn't wilt and become a "sensitive blossom" as you say. But not everyone manages as I did or was tough as nails as you were. Everyone handles things differently. We are not all like you. You are a self-inflated, opinionated, aggressive, Neanderthal who is not intelligent enough to know that bullying is a real epidemic. As I reread this post I realized I might get deleted for calling you names but then I remembered you can handle it, you're no sensitive blossom.



Backpoints, if name calling really and truly still effects you then I would suggest you stay indoors, do not leave your house. That is the best way to avoid things that do not conform to your views or that offend you.

"You are a self-inflated, opinionated, aggressive, Neanderthal who is not intelligent enough to know that bullying is a real epidemic."-Hmmm....True on the opinionated part, but this is a blog where I believe that is encouraged. Self-Inflated, not true, that is mostly due to beers and pizza, but I did ingest them, so perhaps you are correct. Aggressive, well, I have heard that term mentioned once or twice when others were talking about me. Neanderthal? That is just way off the mark. Really, I shaved that portion of my eyebrow so I look fantastic now, true story. By the way, who uses "Neanderthal" in that manner anymore? I do recall hearing it in older movies where the lady would get a case of the vapors and cry out that the loutish man was acting like a neanderthal, but I thought it had fallen out of favor so as not to offend some....hmm...more questions..


deepbrook
Wed Jan 28 2015, 03:48PM
Registered Member #11658
Joined: Fri Feb 10 2012, 04:45PM
Posts: 59
@Medic5392, you would have won your bet. No, I did not take the time to look at the links that you provided. I'll take a look some time in the next few days.

In my professional capacity, I've worked with the authors of a program designed to help schools bully-proof. Their program is based on research and proven to be effective. Bullying is a real issue and one worthy of addressing.
Patsfan
Wed Jan 28 2015, 03:50PM
Registered Member #4545
Joined: Sun Nov 26 2006, 06:45PM
Posts: 592
Just one man's opinion... I really am tired of seeing this kind of back of and forth CRAP on masswrestling.com

If you want to support the initiative... Great. Good for you!

If you don't... then don't! Good for you for sticking to your beliefs.

But, I don't see a post where any one asked for others to provide their personal beliefs. Furthermore, I don't (I'm sure I'm not alone) really care what your beliefs are. I am just here to talk, watch, and support wrestling. I get that it is a public forum and all the jazz, but enough already.

Standby for additional high horse banter in 3... 2... 1...
Medic5392
Wed Jan 28 2015, 03:53PM
Registered Member #6539
Joined: Tue Dec 11 2007, 04:11PM
Posts: 846
deepbrook wrote ...

@Medic5392, you would have won your bet. No, I did not take the time to look at the links that you provided. I'll take a look some time in the next few days.

In my professional capacity, I've worked with the authors of a program designed to help schools bully-proof. Their program is based on research and proven to be effective. Bullying is a real issue and one worthy of addressing.



Deepbrook, Bully Proof is like the term "Gun Free Zones", sounds great on paper, but the kids who are going to bully are not really going to stop bullying, they will just do it outside of school or get better at it. Bullying has been around forever, it is nothing new and their is no epidemic. The majority of programs are based on biased research that defines bullying so broadly that is it a total an absolute joke. Much like the boy who cried wolf, it will become a term that has no meaning anymore.
Medic5392
Wed Jan 28 2015, 03:57PM
Registered Member #6539
Joined: Tue Dec 11 2007, 04:11PM
Posts: 846
Patsfan wrote ...

Just one man's opinion... I really am tired of seeing this kind of back of and forth CRAP on masswrestling.com

If you want to support the initiative... Great. Good for you!

If you don't... then don't! Good for you for sticking to your beliefs.

But, I don't see a post where any one asked for others to provide their personal beliefs. Furthermore, I don't (I'm sure I'm not alone) really care what your beliefs are. I am just here to talk, watch, and support wrestling. I get that it is a public forum and all the jazz, but enough already.

Standby for additional high horse banter in 3... 2... 1...


Then don't read the post. If you post on a blog, people are going to post and they may not agree with what you posted, hence the back and forth. If a coach is doing something that you do not agree with in the sport of wrestling would you support it so you did not have to read the back and forths? If you do support it, great, no need to comment or maybe just say "Yay!". I was going to say something about you not supporting it, but "But, I don't see a post where any one asked for others to provide their personal beliefs. Furthermore, I don't (I'm sure I'm not alone) really care what your beliefs are. I am just here to talk, watch, and support wrestling. I get that it is a public forum and all the jazz, but enough already."-You do kind of see the irony of your post with what you are posting against right?
deepbrook
Wed Jan 28 2015, 04:11PM
Registered Member #11658
Joined: Fri Feb 10 2012, 04:45PM
Posts: 59
Medic5392 wrote ...
Bullying has been around forever, it is nothing new and their is no epidemic.


Just because something is "nothing new" and has "been around forever" doesn't mean that we have to sit idly by and accept it. And it certainly doesn't mean that the situation can't improve.

Steven Pinker has written an excellent book called "The Better Angels of our Nature." In it, he documents the steep decline in violence over time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Better_Angels_of_Our_Nature

If we can reduce violence, we can reduce bullying. Why wouldn't we want to?
Jim Maher
Wed Jan 28 2015, 04:16PM

Joined: Mon Mar 29 2004, 08:09PM
Posts: 4676
Enough getlemen!!. Back to wrestling.
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