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MassWrestling.com :: Forums :: New England Wrestling

NE--some final thoughts 
dnowa
Sun Mar 03 2013, 12:00PM
Registered Member #4263
Joined: Tue Aug 22 2006, 09:45AM
Posts: 115
Enjoyed Prov again. If back, perhaps head table will move to opposite side alcove so as to not obstruct so many good seats. Still agree that MA deserves a #7 and CT a #5, making a nice 24-man bracket (all byes in 1st round of consis, and with a 5 and 7, you need to win your last match at states to earn a spot). Thought the finals format worked well with 3 mats--making long days a little shorter for most fans, and random draw is fair start. Would also still like to see NE like all other tourneys with a day 2 weigh in. In terms of results by states, seemed more balanced this year in the finals, with no one state dominating. If taking the top point scorer from each state at each weight class, the following shows:

MA 290.5 (all 14 wts with medalist)
CT 281 (13 of 14)
ME 181
RI 170
VT 147
NH 132

I am sure others will provide greater breakdown of medalists by state, and point scoring by state seed.

Congrats to all 14 champs, and to MAU. Will look forward to seeing the videos shot by RI, especially 106 (while I thought it was perhaps 2 moments earlier, I don't believe it was actually awarded or signaled before the clock read 0:00).
plm_77
Sun Mar 03 2013, 12:16PM

Joined: Sat Apr 03 2004, 03:51PM
Posts: 260
Vermont should bring 1(VT2 was 5-28). MA 8, CT 6.
plm_77
Sun Mar 03 2013, 12:20PM

Joined: Sat Apr 03 2004, 03:51PM
Posts: 260
Vermont had 6 wrestlers at 120 for their States. No sectional in mass was that small.
MAU130
Sun Mar 03 2013, 01:26PM
Registered Member #7581
Joined: Thu Mar 06 2008, 06:06PM
Posts: 39
plm_77 wrote ...

Vermont should bring 1(VT2 was 5-28). MA 8, CT 6.


Plm_77 a VT3 placed.... Second 4 teams in the top 50 were VT teams. Interesting to look at cause all those MASS schools! But just another person hating!! Cause honestly if those kids are sooooooooo baddd. Then it just helps you that they are there so you can have an easy win. Haha jeez c'mon. Just a couple years ago there was a VT3 new England champ
coachskp
Sun Mar 03 2013, 01:46PM
Registered Member #847
Joined: Wed Dec 15 2004, 11:37AM
Posts: 894
dnowa wrote ...

Enjoyed Prov again. If back, perhaps head table will move to opposite side alcove so as to not obstruct so many good seats. Still agree that MA deserves a #7 and CT a #5, making a nice 24-man bracket (all byes in 1st round of consis, and with a 5 and 7, you need to win your last match at states to earn a spot). Thought the finals format worked well with 3 mats--making long days a little shorter for most fans, and random draw is fair start. Would also still like to see NE like all other tourneys with a day 2 weigh in. In terms of results by states, seemed more balanced this year in the finals, with no one state dominating. If taking the top point scorer from each state at each weight class, the following shows:

MA 290.5 (all 14 wts with medalist)
CT 281 (13 of 14)
ME 181
RI 170
VT 147
NH 132

I am sure others will provide greater breakdown of medalists by state, and point scoring by state seed.

Congrats to all 14 champs, and to MAU. Will look forward to seeing the videos shot by RI, especially 106 (while I thought it was perhaps 2 moments earlier, I don't believe it was actually awarded or signaled before the clock read 0:00).


Just two so far
CT1 224
MA1 214
LibertyMikeC
Sun Mar 03 2013, 01:48PM
Registered Member #8105
Joined: Sat Nov 22 2008, 02:46PM
Posts: 287
plm_77 wrote ...

Vermont should bring 1(VT2 was 5-28). MA 8, CT 6.


How would you feel if you lived in VT? What if your child took 2nd at their state tournament?...This might have been a down year for their kids at New England's...based on the finals results...but things change from year to year...suggesting that they only get 1 representative from their state is a little ridiculous...
AHS611
Sun Mar 03 2013, 01:49PM
Registered Member #7279
Joined: Sun Feb 10 2008, 06:15PM
Posts: 330
No, Vermont is a glorified section. Bringing 1 would be fine. You can try to look at the outliers of ONE VT3 placing, but I'm sure you could find some MA10s that would get some wins at New Englands as well, more so than VT3s overall.
AHS611
Sun Mar 03 2013, 01:56PM
Registered Member #7279
Joined: Sun Feb 10 2008, 06:15PM
Posts: 330
Vermont's largest bracket at states had 12 guys in it (145). So nevermind 120, where they sent 50% of their state's guys to New Englands, at their largest weight, they still sent 25% of their guys. If there are roughly 150 teams in Mass and we send six, that is about 4%.
LibertyMikeC
Sun Mar 03 2013, 01:59PM
Registered Member #8105
Joined: Sat Nov 22 2008, 02:46PM
Posts: 287
Glorified Section?? Why don't you just vote them out of New England then?...no state should only be allowed 1 kid...the difference at a state title could have been a 1 point match...styles mean everything in this sport...don't let a year of results change the way things are done in the future...
mray
Sun Mar 03 2013, 02:35PM
Registered Member #278
Joined: Mon Jan 16 2006, 10:06AM
Posts: 1127
CoachMike05 wrote ...

Glorified Section?? Why don't you just vote them out of New England then?...no state should only be allowed 1 kid...the difference at a state title could have been a 1 point match...styles mean everything in this sport...don't let a year of results change the way things are done in the future...



Another year. Same old story. The NE Council will NOT eliminate entries. They will only add entries to this tournament. If you send only the top kids in Vermont then you are eliminating $560 of entry fees along with all the money spent on concessions, programs, and the loss for area businesses. You can argue anything you want but they will not cut. The tournament is a huge success. Hopefully they will add more qualifiers and think about making it a 2 weigh-in tourney. Saturday morning weigh-ins should be happening and also the start of the tourney should be at least a 2:00 start on Friday. Early out on Friday and early in on Saturday. I will say whoever decided to run all placement bouts at the same time made a great decision. Wrestling fans enjoy action and this is a good addition.
mray
Sun Mar 03 2013, 02:39PM
Registered Member #278
Joined: Mon Jan 16 2006, 10:06AM
Posts: 1127
Also 5th place finisher at 160....Connor Brown VT 3.
Agatch22
Sun Mar 03 2013, 03:41PM
Registered Member #5260
Joined: Sat Jan 27 2007, 10:59PM
Posts: 80
plm_77 wrote ...

Vermont should bring 1(VT2 was 5-28). MA 8, CT 6.


You do realize that yr to yr weight classes change. Your talking about MA bringing 8, MA5 & 6 only totaled for 3 place winners. So why would you bring 8? Again every yr is different. You have to bring 3, what if the 2 best kids in NE are on the same side of the bracket at states for whatever reason, 1 moves to finals other drops down for 3rd. Like MAU130 said you should be happy for easier pin pts, if they're that bad.
warp57
Sun Mar 03 2013, 03:43PM
Registered Member #1920
Joined: Sun Mar 13 2005, 06:08AM
Posts: 152
plm_77 wrote ...

Vermont should bring 1(VT2 was 5-28). MA 8, CT 6.



Three things you can count on:
1. Death
2. Taxes
3. MAU and Timberlane bring too many to New England"s..............

For those that believe that more places are deserved, then organize a petition/movement for more spots. Start a campaign, do what you have to do, but if you think that you can do so successfully by bashing other states, sadly I feel you will not be successful. I don't see any state ever bringing less than 3, nor should they. The top 3 accounts for a legit kid that gets upset/caught prior to the finals and wrestles back to 3rd place. What needs to be proven to the powers to be is why a certain states needs more representation than they already have and do so based upon the depth of the talent level/merits. How many MA6 and CT4's placed? I couldn't find any.
j johnson
Sun Mar 03 2013, 03:49PM
Registered Member #2580
Joined: Thu Nov 10 2005, 08:59PM
Posts: 706
I love all this VT sends too many and Mass doesn't send enough, Mass can't win a team title when MAU and Timberlane send so many, blah blah blah.

MAU won by 40 points this year. If we took away the 7 lowest scoring wrestlers that would total 5 points (4 didn't score any, one scored 1 point and 2 scored 2 points) then they still win by 35. Now, if we add the MA7's and 8's, would they have given any Mass team enough points to close that gap? Hell, if you took away 7 of MAU's qualifiers, plus took away their transfer that everyone was so upset about at the beginning of the season (he scored 26 points), they are still 9 ahead of Timberlane. timberlane sent 9 wrestlers, 7 of whom were a in the consi-quarters, hard to say any of those kids don't belong there. Of those MAU kids that scored few or no points, one of them had a win over the MA3 at Lowell Holiday, and another was a finalist there, hard to say they didn't belong.

To say VT or any other state deserves less than 3 entries is ridiculous. It is the New England championships, not they Mass vs a couple kids tournament. Obviously Mass is the best wrestling state in New England (big fish, very small pond, but that's another topic all together) with CT close behind, but they should be just on numbers alone. With only 20 teams, obviously Vermont doesn't have the depth of the other states, but there are exceptions every year. Think '04 when VT had the champ and 3rd place finisher at 130, or '05 when VT3 won New England's, heck even this year at 220 Vermont had a 4th placer finish and a kid one match away from placing, and they are in 11th and 10th grade, good chance both wil be placing next year.

I do agree Mass should send the 7 and 8, and CT should send the 5 and 6. With 22 kids in a 32 man bracket, it would work just fine, just means fewer bye's. Hell the NE council should love it, more entries=more $$. Add entries, no reason to eliminate entries. Of course, after we do this, then people will have to find a new set of excuses for why Mass and CT teams aren't winning team titles over MAU or Timberlane, but that's ok, I have total confidence that won't take long to come up with something.
mray
Sun Mar 03 2013, 05:10PM
Registered Member #278
Joined: Mon Jan 16 2006, 10:06AM
Posts: 1127
SHOW ME THE MO-NAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!!!!!!
I believe the NE Council enjoys the great profits that wrestling provides. This is one argument that Wrestling wins over Hoopty Doops and Concussion Ball. I mean Football. Wrestling , overall, is very safe and free of danger (unless, of course, you try and wrestle 3 huge tournaments in 1 week) However , those other sports do not make money......BECAUSE THERE IS NO OTHER FREAKIN NEW ENGLAND THAT MAKES MONEY LIKE WRESTLING. Realistically if a few more qualifiers were added , what would it hurt. We are not talking about kids who can't wrestle somewhat decently. 14 kids became champions this week. Does that mean all the other kids are no good? I hope that's not what you think. Stop trashing on kids and spend your time petitioning for more qualifiers. This type of discussion is going on in NY as they just completed their States. Section X has basically a Dual Meet and in some weight classes there is only one kid and they get to go to the States. Hence, they decided a few years ago to start adding wild cards. Section X will never get a wild card. Maybe this might be a possibility of sorts. Maybe if teams were allowed multiple entries from their own teams into the qualifiers this might strengthen the lack of depth that some people are talking about.
pjsalvatori
Mon Mar 04 2013, 08:24AM
Registered Member #1842
Joined: Fri Mar 04 2005, 11:24PM
Posts: 22
How many teams are in the smallest section in Mass and what place finishers (ie. top 3, etc.) qualify to advance?
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